Canon EOS R5 Mark II in the hands of the lucky? [CR1]

[Dannyjeffers]

'shadow recovery' is something bound to photo editing software, Canon won't even try to improve on something that 3rd party software does.
What you actually want is a higher dynamic range - it would generally give you a better 'shadow recovery'.

However there's little room for dynamic range improvement anyway, unless Canon uses a drastically different sensor tech in the R5II.

If you struggle with 'shadow recovery' on the R5's images, you may want to reconsider your shooting technique, as the camera copes very well with high dynamic range scenes, better than any of the previous-gen Canon cameras.

Not really true. The R5 has outstanding highlight recovery but lags behind other brands in shadow recovery. Nikon mirrorless tends to be the opposite. Sony excels at both. I've owned each system and can tell you for a fact this is the case.

 

[Skux]

All this speculation and suddenly one day Gordon Laing/DP Review/Jared Polin/Manny Ortiz/Kai Wong/Petapixel et al all drop simultaneous hands-on videos.

I wonder what they think of us floundering around in the dark while they play with these new toys.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Not really true. The R5 has outstanding highlight recovery but lags behind other brands in shadow recovery. Nikon mirrorless tends to be the opposite. Sony excels at both. I've owned each system and can tell you for a fact this is the case.

You're talking about big misconceptions. There's no such thing as shadow or highlight recovery in the context of camera/sensor technical specs. If you shoot raw, what you really care about is the dynamic range. Dynamic range is an actual measurable property.

Shadow or highlight recovery is up to software processing chain and depends on your photo editing software (e.g. Lightroom) as well as dynamic range of raw files your camera produces. Also it depends on the metering mode/exposure settings and ISO when shooting, as well as the scene illuminance. In other words, so called shadow/highlight recovery is absolutely meaningless when you talk about camera specs.

Those who talk about 'shadow recovery' and 'highlight recovery' room don't really understand the processing chain.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

All this speculation and suddenly one day Gordon Laing/DP Review/Jared Polin/Manny Ortiz/Kai Wong/Petapixel et al all drop simultaneous hands-on videos.

I wonder what they think of us floundering around in the dark while they play with these new toys.

Hands-in videos are prepared few weeks before a release. They do it with cameras already tested and rat room be released.

Testing can be done one-two years before the release. The copies being tested may never get to production.

 

[NKD]

I suspect that for a lot of 5DIV shooters -- like me -- the R5II will be the upgrade that brings us into the mirrorless world. Since I primarily shoot stills, the original R5 wasn't quite worth the spend. But with improved autofocus and sensor, plus even better video, the R5II will be a bigger jump in quality (not to mention that my 5DIV is now 3 years older)

---

Deutsch Photography: NYC’s Top Corporate, Executive and Actor Headshot Photographer NYC

I agree. Shotting with 2 5dsR's for architecture mainly & tripod stills. Purchased the reasonbly priced R7 for fun and just got the EL-5 speedlight... its just an amazing combo & the R7's tracking.... so good for fast moving shots.. Cant wait for one of the rumoured cameras or fingers crossed - Still only R5S w/ R3 style body with limited video funstions

 

[kaihp]

As I've often pointed out, no Olympic level photographer is going to take a camera to the games that he or she isn't thoroughly familiar with and hasn't used multiple times beforehand. That means the camera must be in the hands of professional sports photographers in time for them to use it at Olympic qualifying events and other sporting events.

Except that they did exactly this with the R3 for the Tokyo games.

Jeff Cable (Team USA) got an R3 with basically no time to learn it. He refused to learn the eye focus system and stripping the exif from the jpgs he posted, because he didn't have time. Which was eventually how we got certainty of the 24Mpixels.

Jeff Cable talks about what it's like to shoot with the Canon EOS R3 as a pro #EOSR3

Dan Havlik at Digital Photo Pro had the chance to interview Jeff Cable, probably the most talked-about Canon shooter at the Tokyo Olympic Games for his work wit

www.canonrumors.com

 

[unfocused]

Except that they did exactly this with the R3 for the Tokyo games.

Jeff Cable (Team USA) got an R3 with basically no time to learn it. He refused to learn the eye focus system and stripping the exif from the jpgs he posted, because he didn't have time. Which was eventually how we got certainty of the 24Mpixels.

Jeff Cable talks about what it's like to shoot with the Canon EOS R3 as a pro #EOSR3

Dan Havlik at Digital Photo Pro had the chance to interview Jeff Cable, probably the most talked-about Canon shooter at the Tokyo Olympic Games for his work wit

www.canonrumors.com

One photographer. One photographer working under a special agreement with Canon for the specific purpose of testing the camera. One photographer who had instant access to Canon at any time if he needed it. One photographer who had other bodies to shoot with.

That's not at all comparable to releasing a new body to the general public and expecting professional photographers who are answerable to their employers to shoot with it without having had the opportunity to thoroughly try it out at other events. If you really think that most Olympic level photographers are going to go to the Olympics not having the had the opportunity to use the camera for several months and at multiple events beforehand, go ahead and believe that.

Canon will release the R1 on roughly the same schedule as they released previous 1Dx bodies in order to give the bulk of Olympic level professionals time to get familiar with and use the body at other events.

 

[Aussie shooter]

Yeah, the dynamic range of the R5 is pretty good already, there's room for improvement but it's very limited. The R5 is pretty much on par with competitors in terms of the dynamic range.

What does need to improve is the amount of hot pixels (due to dark currents I assume). The image quickly gets dirty at shutter speeds longer than 0.5 seconds, with more and more hot pixels popping up. It used to be better in older Canon sensors (e.g. in 5DIV). 'Long exposure noise reduction' helps but makes shooting experience awkward.

I'd rather be happy to switch to a dedicated landscape camera, something like a long rumoured high megapixel R5s optimised for landscape photography - that is, sacrificed high speed shooting for better image quality, less hot pixels and banding.

Yeah. I get a lot more hot pixels in my r6 than I used to on my 7d2. Bit of a pain but for images that are getting printed I have a cleanup workflow in PS that cleans them all up without adding much more time to my editing. A couple minutes at most

 

[kaihp]

One photographer. One photographer working under a special agreement with Canon for the specific purpose of testing the camera.

Ah yes, the No True Scotsman argument where you move the goalpost after you've been proven wrong.

 

[AlanF]

Ah yes, the No True Scotsman argument where you move the goalpost after you've been proven wrong.

Thanks Kai for teaching me something - I hadn't come across the "No True Scotsman" description of the fallacy before. You are right about moving the goalposts, but is it a No True Scotsman argument? A No True Scotsman argument would be: "No Olympic level photographer is going to take a camera to the games that he or she isn't thoroughly familiar with and hasn't used multiple times beforehand. Jeff Cable took such a camera therefore he is not an Olympic level photographer".

 

[unfocused]

Ah yes, the No True Scotsman argument where you move the goalpost after you've been proven wrong.

Good God. What a silly thing to argue about.

 

[unfocused]

Here: I'll amend my statement. Including the comment I was responding to because my response (which really non-controversial) has been taken wildly out of context.

Less than 13 months to 2024 Summer Games.

Yes. Which means that if the R1 is to be released for the Olympics, it cannot be any later than the first few months of 2024. Why?

As I've often pointed out, no Olympic level photographer who is not under a specific contractual agreement with Canon to test a pre-production model of a camera and provide commentary and feedback on using said camera, is going to take a camera to the games that he or she isn't thoroughly familiar with and hasn't used multiple times beforehand. That means the camera must be in the hands of professional sports photographers in time for them to use it at Olympic qualifying events and other sporting events.

This is even more critical this year because the R1 will be the first mirrorless 1 series camera. With the 1 series DSLRs, photographers only had to adjust to the latest incremental changes from one model to another. But, the mirrorless 1 is a completely new series. True, the R3 has been available and presumably the R1 will carry over many of the features of the R3, but I believe Canon is not going to take any chances and will want the R1 to be readily available for Olympic level photographers well in advance of the games.

As an aside, if I were Canon I'd be sweating bullets over the freeze issues that photographers have encountered with almost all of Canon's mirrorless bodies. Can you imagine the damage to their reputation if any Olympic photographer missed a key shot because the R1 froze up?

 

[Jethro]

Here: I'll amend my statement. Including the comment I was responding to because my response (which really non-controversial) has been taken wildly out of context.

Leaving Scotsmen out of it ...

I think your conclusions about timing are surely correct - (i) hard to believe Canon won't want to showcase their new mirrorless showpiece camera at their home Olympics, and (ii) even harder to believe that they would not want multiple professionals shooting those games to be using ALL of that shiny new camera's functionality to it's upmost at those games - meaning they'll need months of prep beforehand. Now, those photographers may potentially get pre-production models to practice with - so query the answer in terms of general release dates.

 

[scyrene]

Leaving Scotsmen out of it ...

I think your conclusions about timing are surely correct - (i) hard to believe Canon won't want to showcase their new mirrorless showpiece camera at their home Olympics, and (ii) even harder to believe that they would not want multiple professionals shooting those games to be using ALL of that shiny new camera's functionality to it's upmost at those games - meaning they'll need months of prep beforehand. Now, those photographers may potentially get pre-production models to practice with - so query the answer in terms of general release dates.

Home Olympics? It's Paris next, isn't it?

 

[AlanF]

Home Olympics? It's Paris next, isn't it?

Might get a Glasgow kiss for leaving Scotsmen out as well.

 

[Czardoom]

Ah yes, the No True Scotsman argument where you move the goalpost after you've been proven wrong.

Proven wrong? So, all those other summer games where Canon released the camera with enough time for photographers to become familiar with it don't count? So, the fact that they did in actuality release their flagship 1DX III in January 2020, 7 months before the scheduled Tokyo Summer games does not count? The fact is that no one, including Canon, knew if the Tokyo games would be held in 2021. And thus the availability of pre-release R3s would have not been scheduled to correspond in any way with the 2021 games. Did you happen to forget all that?

So, no, your example proved no one wrong. Only proved that you were looking to take someone down...and failed.

 

[Czardoom]

Here: I'll amend my statement. Including the comment I was responding to because my response (which really non-controversial) has been taken wildly out of context.

No need to amend your statement. Your comment regarding getting cameras out with enough time for photograpghers to become familair with them before the Olympics is obviously true and needs no defending. The Tokyo Olympics were scheduled for July 2020. The 1DX III flagship was released in January 2020, thus 7 months lead time. The Pandemic then delayed the Tokyo games. No one knew whether they would be delayed or cancelled. Thus when they were rescheduled for July 2021, Canon was able to take advantage of the coincidence that the R3 was in pre-production and could be put in the hands of an Olympic photographer. None of this was obviously scheduled ahead of time as the fate of the Tokyo games was unknown.

 

[AlanF]

We should invite ChatGPT to join CR.

Me: Does Canon always get out its new flagship cameras to be ready in time for professionals to use in the Olympic games?

ChatGPT: Canon, like other major camera manufacturers, often strives to release new flagship camera models in time for major sporting events such as the Olympic Games. These events provide an excellent platform for showcasing the capabilities of their latest camera technology to professional photographers and enthusiasts.

Canon has a history of timing their camera releases strategically to coincide with significant industry events. This includes flagship camera models that offer advancements in features, image quality, autofocus performance, and overall functionality. By launching new cameras ahead of major sporting events like the Olympics, Canon aims to attract professional photographers who require cutting-edge equipment to capture high-quality images and videos.

While Canon aims to have their latest flagship cameras available for professionals to use during major events, the precise timing of product releases can vary. Factors such as development timelines, production schedules, and other considerations may impact the availability of new camera models. It's important to note that camera releases are subject to the company's product strategy and market demands, and there may be instances where the timing doesn't align perfectly with specific events.

 

[unfocused]

Thanks @Czardoom. You are correct the 1 series camera released to correspond with the 2020 summer Olympics was the 1DxIII. It's hard to remember just how messed up things got during the global pandemic.

It never fails to amaze me how innocuous and self-evident comments can become fodder for someone trying to score points to "win" the internet. I never guessed – although after years of participating in this forum, I probably should have – that someone would take issue with the simple observation that Canon is going to put the R1 in the hands of Olympic photographers in time for them to become familiar with the camera and use it at other events to test it out.

 

[Jethro]

Home Olympics? It's Paris next, isn't it?

Indeed it is!