Canon EOS-1D C vs Nikon D5 for 4K Video

[douglaurent]

If Canon wants filmmakers and me to buy an 1DX2, they need to overexceed expectations and implement focus peaking, 4K 60fps, maybe even 4.5K video for cropping and other useful stuff. This is where the disadvantages against the A7II series would have a set of advantages towards the 1DX2 that makes it interesting. If Canon disappoints with specs and just remains on the 2012 1DC level, anybody aside from sports photographers can ignore the 1DX2.

I don't think they do. I dont even think Canon necessarily means this machine to truly take the place of the 1DC per se. It seems Canon (according to multiple rumor mills) is putting more stock in the 5 body to be their video DSLR. Yeah, they will have 4k in the 1DX2, but I'd be really surprised if they push this as a cinema device. I think they have 4k on it to say "We have 4k on it" but I don't expect this have anything more than 30FPS in 4k with maybe a C-Log profile if we're lucky. I don't think it will be nearly AS choked as the Nikon D5, but I don't it see it having a C100II type interface and cinema whistles. That said, the 1DX2 is still going to sell very, very well to not just sports guys but journalists, and high volume shooters alike. I just don't see a lot of cinema use (no matter what they do, in a body like a 1 series.

I don't think any 1D or Nikon D# ever has been or will be a big seller, compared to the rest of the business these companies do. They make money with it because the cameras are really expensive. With an overexceeding 1DX2 and filmmakers starting to buy it, they for sure can sell 30-100% more of it. Right now Canon does lose a lot of money because many filmmakers want a C300II, but instead do buy a Sony FS7 which is half the price, but has even better specs like 4K60fps.

Canon can not lower the price of the new C300II by half too soon. They can also not release a cheaper C200 which has better specs than a C300II just to compete with the FS7. A 1DX2 for 7000-8000 bucks would be a perfect product for all those who have only that much budget, and prefer to have the Canon look and feel. But it can't just be the minimum of video and 4K specs.

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon must be breathing a sigh of relief.
Seeing the new Nikon competition, they don't have to wory about putting GOOD 4k into the 1dx2 or 5d4. They can just use their 4 year old 1dc technology with the new cameras and they will still beat the competition.

However, I really do hope that Canon has listened to videographers and brings us good 4k in the new cameras and blow Nikon away.

Well as others have said elsewhere, the 1DxII is almost certainly finalised now, bar software tweaks. So this release can't have much, if any impact.

I am pretty sure within several months time left, Canon has the chance to cut some features, or add something they have prepared as an option. Unless manufacturing begins they can always do at least software tuning. Why should they give away this great timeframe opportunity?

ever think of manuals, legal, translations, UI's, etc?

 

[Tugela]

4K 60fps

It already uses massive heat sinks to keep the heat off the large sensor. For 60fps it would need water cooling or massive fans, no joke.

The Nikon is limited to 3 minute recording to prevent overheating.

The larger your sensor and the more weather sealing, the more problems heat causes for video.

A smartphone and many point ans shoot, APS-C and micro 4/3 cameras record 4k without heating issues. But all full frame sensors either overheat (Nikon / Sony), or they use massive heatsinks (Canon).

I don't think anyone really has a solution to this problem. Sony's cameras are simply shutting down, Nikon is limiting their clips to 3 minutes, and canon has chosen massive heat sinks. Neither is a real solution.

It isn't the sensor that generates the heat, it is the processor that does. The problem with Canon and Nikon (and to a lesser extent, Sony) is that they use old tech for their processors. An example of this is the original a7S, which could shoot 4K, but only when recorded externally because the processor would overheat if it tried to process onboard. Even now the a7RII has heat issues when recording. Panasonic use more modern processors, as do Samsung, and neither of those have heat issues at all.

Ultimately the practicality of 4K video in consumer cameras comes down to how up to date the manufacturer is with the processor technology they use. This is the limiting factor, and the reason why both Canon and Nikon are coming to the 4K party late.

IMO neither Canon nor Nikon are going to be able to enable 4K in their consumer cameras in 2016. For Canon you are probably going to see consumer products that still use the Digic 6 for that reason. Anyone who wants a consumer camera that can do both stills and video at a high quality level will have to look to either Sony or Panasonic.

Samsung would be capable as well, but they are getting out of the camera business. Rumor has it that their mirrorless tech was sold to Nikon, and if that is so, then expect to see VERY capable cameras coming out of Nikon and being announced at around Photokina (or even earlier of they adopt the NX system), with release in early 2017.

 

[Tugela]

If Canon wants filmmakers and me to buy an 1DX2, they need to overexceed expectations and implement focus peaking, 4K 60fps, maybe even 4.5K video for cropping and other useful stuff. This is where the disadvantages against the A7II series would have a set of advantages towards the 1DX2 that makes it interesting. If Canon disappoints with specs and just remains on the 2012 1DC level, anybody aside from sports photographers can ignore the 1DX2.

I don't think they do. I dont even think Canon necessarily means this machine to truly take the place of the 1DC per se. It seems Canon (according to multiple rumor mills) is putting more stock in the 5 body to be their video DSLR. Yeah, they will have 4k in the 1DX2, but I'd be really surprised if they push this as a cinema device. I think they have 4k on it to say "We have 4k on it" but I don't expect this have anything more than 30FPS in 4k with maybe a C-Log profile if we're lucky. I don't think it will be nearly AS choked as the Nikon D5, but I don't it see it having a C100II type interface and cinema whistles. That said, the 1DX2 is still going to sell very, very well to not just sports guys but journalists, and high volume shooters alike. I just don't see a lot of cinema use (no matter what they do, in a body like a 1 series.

I don't think any 1D or Nikon D# ever has been or will be a big seller, compared to the rest of the business these companies do. They make money with it because the cameras are really expensive. With an overexceeding 1DX2 and filmmakers starting to buy it, they for sure can sell 30-100% more of it. Right now Canon does lose a lot of money because many filmmakers want a C300II, but instead do buy a Sony FS7 which is half the price, but has even better specs like 4K60fps.

Canon can not lower the price of the new C300II by half too soon. They can also not release a cheaper C200 which has better specs than a C300II just to compete with the FS7. A 1DX2 for 7000-8000 bucks would be a perfect product for all those who have only that much budget, and prefer to have the Canon look and feel. But it can't just be the minimum of video and 4K specs.

Inclusion of 4K in cameras like the 1DX2 is not intended to make them front line video cameras for professionals. Professionals will use cameras designed for video. Instead, the purpose of such a function in a stills camera is to allow a photographer to record video for supplementary purposes in support of the stills they are taking, but without having to drag a dedicated second camera along solely for that purpose.

 

[neuroanatomist]

It isn't the sensor that generates the heat, it is the processor that does.

Well, I guess all those companies that put Peltier cooling on the backs of sensors in my scientific cameras are getting it wrong. Do me a favor – call up Zeiss, Q-Imaging, Leica and Nikon and tell them they're wasting their time and my money because image sensors don't generate heat. Thanks!

:

 

[scyrene]

Canon must be breathing a sigh of relief.
Seeing the new Nikon competition, they don't have to wory about putting GOOD 4k into the 1dx2 or 5d4. They can just use their 4 year old 1dc technology with the new cameras and they will still beat the competition.

However, I really do hope that Canon has listened to videographers and brings us good 4k in the new cameras and blow Nikon away.

Well as others have said elsewhere, the 1DxII is almost certainly finalised now, bar software tweaks. So this release can't have much, if any impact.

I am pretty sure within several months time left, Canon has the chance to cut some features, or add something they have prepared as an option. Unless manufacturing begins they can always do at least software tuning. Why should they give away this great timeframe opportunity?

ever think of manuals, legal, translations, UI's, etc?

Good points. I was only repeating what I've read, although it sounds sensible to me. The prevailing opinion is it should be available for the Olympics, and I'd imagine shipping a few weeks before that. Aside from software, can there really be much other tweaking possible with ~5 months to go? And even less if they announce it with most details in a few weeks from now.

 

[aceflibble]

Well, no amateur is paying out for either a Nikon D5 or a Canon 1D series, and no professional is using them for video, either. So I'm not sure what on Earth the point of this sausage-measuring is. 4K in DSLRs is nothing more than a bullet point for the marketing department to show off so people online who read spec sheets but never actually use the cameras can be happy. The professional word got over and moved on from DSLR years ago, once cameras like the C100/300/500 and FS7 gave them the full lens range of DSLRs with more appropriate bodies and accessories, and the amateur world has scaled downwards toward mirrorless/micro 4/3rds. The only people still using DSLRs of any kind for videos are the few who picked it up years ago and haven't yet moved on, and nobody who changes bodies that rarely is going to suddenly buy a D5/1D.

 

[PureClassA]

I agree (see previous posts) that neither the 1DX2 nor D5 will be bought in any meaningful number (if at all) for 4k capabilities. I don't however think that's the same for a 5 series body or other more compact DSLRs. The problem is that at the moment, no one is offering a competitive DSLR for video short of the 5D II and III, which with video are often hacked with MagicLantern. If Canon indeed develops a video dedicated 5 body, which is been rumored several times, then it will likely sell very well (short of it being a total dud, spec-wise) because there is a lot of desire have native EF mounts for small/indy film production in compact bodies. There's a decent number of wedding shooters who use 5 series bodies for video. So, I wouldn't say "it's dead". If a 5DC comes out and doesn't sell, then we can say it's dead

Well, no amateur is paying out for either a Nikon D5 or a Canon 1D series, and no professional is using them for video, either. So I'm not sure what on Earth the point of this sausage-measuring is. 4K in DSLRs is nothing more than a bullet point for the marketing department to show off so people online who read spec sheets but never actually use the cameras can be happy. The professional word got over and moved on from DSLR years ago, once cameras like the C100/300/500 and FS7 gave them the full lens range of DSLRs with more appropriate bodies and accessories, and the amateur world has scaled downwards toward mirrorless/micro 4/3rds. The only people still using DSLRs of any kind for videos are the few who picked it up years ago and haven't yet moved on, and nobody who changes bodies that rarely is going to suddenly buy a D5/1D.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Which flagship DSLR is better for 4K video recording, the released in 2012 Canon EOS-1D C, or the recently announced Nikon D5?</p>
<p>Andrew at EOSHD says the Canon EOS-1D C is still the superior 4K DSLR for cinematographers.</p>
<blockquote><p>This time it’s a win for Canon. Although it was released nearly 4 years ago in 2012 the Canon 1D C remains superior to the current Nikon D5 flagship for 4K, which I find puzzling because technology goes a very long way in 4 years. <a href="http://www.eoshd.com/2016/01/nikon-d5-versus-canon-1d-c-cinematic-4k-video-wins/" target="_blank">Read the full comparison</a></p></blockquote>
<p>There is a ton of talk about 4K in Canon’s next generation of full frame cameras, namely the EOS-1D X Mark II, which will have it and the EOS 5D Mark IV, which is still up in the air. There just hasn’t been any reliable information about whether or not Canon will put 4K into the EOS 5D Mark IV. If Nikon hasn’t implemented 4K as well as Canon did 4 years ago, that would be quite an interesting development and may be telling about 4K development in DSLRs going forward.</p>
<p>Based on specifications, do you agree with EOSHD’s assessment of the EOS-1D C vs D5?</p>
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It does seem like the 1DC is better than the D5 but personally I'd say A7R II is even better than the 1DC.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Canon must be breathing a sigh of relief.
Seeing the new Nikon competition, they don't have to wory about putting GOOD 4k into the 1dx2 or 5d4. They can just use their 4 year old 1dc technology with the new cameras and they will still beat the competition.

Except that the A7R II exists.

Also the 1DX/1DC/D5 class DSLR aren't really the ideal first choice for many who are also into video so it's really the D820 they need to worry about. One would hope it would be the A7RII video at the least (maybe even improved to 10bit) and more features, but Nikon does seem to be dropping the ball a little in taking advantage of things so gotta hope they don't end up foolishly bungling the D820 video.