Canon Patent Application: Automated Tilt Movements

[Canon Rumors Guy]

This patent application (2024-025274) discusses how to automate the tilt movement given the objects that the user wants in focus, but more importantly when you want to tilt the plane of focus to something other than horizontal or vertical. I believe this is more commonly called swing. Canon is proposing setting the two focus points

See full article...

 

[koenkooi]

I’m still hoping for a 1:1 magnification TS lens, but like the article says, that will be a very costly lens!

 

[hne]

Imagine a TS lens where you get the possibility to servo-AF track two subjects and the camera adjusts tilt to get both in the focal plane! Add on automatic perspective corrective shift action and IS+IBIS and you would open up a whole new area of photography. I'd really, really like to have a lens like that. Some of my best images have been taken hand-held with a TS 24mm f/3.5L II.

 

[EricN]

It really does seem like it would get a lot of people interested who thought manual focus with the tilt and shift adjustments would be too difficult.

 

[koenkooi]

It really does seem like it would get a lot of people interested who thought manual focus with the tilt and shift adjustments would be too difficult.

Canon: "We can automatically keep all the subjects you want in focus with this new TS-R lens!"
Customer: "How about doing that for regular lenses, like you did with the ADEP mode in the past?"
Canon: "No, you need to buy this TS-R lens for that, stopping down is much harder than doing both tilting and shifting!"

 

[bbasiaga]

This sounds super awesome to me.
Let me ask a question for you more experienced tilt-shifters....

For the miniaturization effect, is it better to have a wider angle TS lens, or a 'normal'? I have a 24mm Tilt-shift, but never really mastered doing the effect. I bought it mostly for pano style frames using shift only, and only tried the tilt thing a few times. What are the tricks to getting a good mini effect?

Brian

 

[EricN]

Canon: "We can automatically keep all the subjects you want in focus with this new TS-R lens!"
Customer: "How about doing that for regular lenses, like you did with the ADEP mode in the past?"
Canon: "No, you need to buy this TS-R lens for that, stopping down is much harder than doing both tilting and shifting!"

Maybe their rational is as we become more experienced, we'll become more accurate with adjusting aperture. Until then, the more expensive cameras have a depth of field preview, there's alway chimping.
But yeah, it would be nice for the camera to offer that capability again.

 

[neuroanatomist]

For the miniaturization effect, is it better to have a wider angle TS lens, or a 'normal'? I have a 24mm Tilt-shift, but never really mastered doing the effect. I bought it mostly for pano style frames using shift only, and only tried the tilt thing a few times. What are the tricks to getting a good mini effect?

The longer the focal length, the more exaggerated the effect will appear. Shooting from an elevated position also helps a lot. Note that the miniature effect can be reproduced pretty well in PS, there are plenty of tutorials. For me, it was something I played with and use only sparingly. My main use case for my TS-E 17 and 24 lenses is architecture, mostly shift but also sometimes tilt. For example:

"Rathaus Basel" – town hall in Basel, Switzerland

EOS 1D X, TS-E 17mm f/4L, 30 s, f/11, ISO 100

 

[David - Sydney]

Correct me if I am wrong but for those that would be interested in architecture/building straightening and multi-shot panoramas, then shift is all that is needed.
Given that we now have the RF10-20/4 and can keystone correct in LS/PS, would this mean that a TS-R lens wouldn't be needed anymore?

 

[scottburgess]

A nice idea to help aging eyes get all necessary parts of the frame in focus. But the best possible improvement to Canon's TS-E lineup is still integrated lens feet with Arca-Swiss grooves.

EricN writes: I’m still hoping for a 1:1 magnification TS lens, but like the article says, that will be a very costly lens!

You may be overestimating the value of TS beyond the 1:2 magnification Canon put in the last generation of lenses, as I once did. Tilt in particular diminishes as the lens focuses closer, so it isn't practical at high magnifications. I'm hopeful that Canon will deliver 1:2 magnifications at 90mm focal length and beyond.

Anyone interested in a 200mm TS-E lens? I'm curious if folks would have use for a longer length than 135mm...

 

[David - Sydney]

Anyone interested in a 200mm TS-E lens? I'm curious if folks would have use for a longer length than 135mm...

There is a vocal minority that would like a replacement for the EF180 macro... maybe TS-R 200mm with 1:1 would be an (expensive) option for them.

 

[Richard CR]

Canon: "We can automatically keep all the subjects you want in focus with this new TS-R lens!"
Customer: "How about doing that for regular lenses, like you did with the ADEP mode in the past?"
Canon: "No, you need to buy this TS-R lens for that, stopping down is much harder than doing both tilting and shifting!"

I was pretty sure I saw an A-DEP Patent application this week... but it was convoluted enough I didn't write about it

 

[Richard CR]

Correct me if I am wrong but for those that would be interested in architecture/building straightening and multi-shot panoramas, then shift is all that is needed.
Given that we now have the RF10-20/4 and can keystone correct in LS/PS, would this mean that a TS-R lens wouldn't be needed anymore?

keystone correction is never as good as optical.

 

[Richard CR]

The longer the focal length, the more exaggerated the effect will appear. Shooting from an elevated position also helps a lot. Note that the miniature effect can be reproduced pretty well in PS, there are plenty of tutorials. For me, it was something I played with and use only sparingly. My main use case for my TS-E 17 and 24 lenses is architecture, mostly shift but also sometimes tilt. For example:

"Rathaus Basel" – town hall in Basel, Switzerland
View attachment 215268
EOS 1D X, TS-E 17mm f/4L, 30 s, f/11, ISO 100

that's a wonderful image

 

[alanphotography]

This would be extremely interesting for portraits or even action, as I love to play with DoF to suit my subjects. I see so much potential, combined with good control (possibly AI supported). Stuff like 'keep the face and ball/sword/torch/etc in focus, blur the rest'. There is so much creative potential by having fine/quick control over the plan of focus.

I hope the aperture is not too closed, the brighter the better for me. Like f2 and below is welcome for portrait models (ex 50mm), even if size/weight/price make it go above the 85 f1.2 or 28-70 f2.

Once they get out an RF 200 f2 (or hopefully something like a 100-200 f2 IS 1.4x or 135-200 1.8 or the like, I'll buy whatever they offer anyway, the EF 200 f2 is that good), this AF TS-E would be my highest-hopped for lens, and a solid reason to stay with Canon.

 

[koenkooi]

A nice idea to help aging eyes get all necessary parts of the frame in focus. But the best possible improvement to Canon's TS-E lineup is still integrated lens feet with Arca-Swiss grooves.



You may be overestimating the value of TS beyond the 1:2 magnification Canon put in the last generation of lenses, as I once did. Tilt in particular diminishes as the lens focuses closer, so it isn't practical at high magnifications. I'm hopeful that Canon will deliver 1:2 magnifications at 90mm focal length and beyond.

Anyone interested in a 200mm TS-E lens? I'm curious if folks would have use for a longer length than 135mm...

I sold my Ts-E90mm due to that, it couldn’t tilt far enough to do something useful at close focus distances. And its IQ dropped when tilting.

 

[P-visie]

There is a vocal minority that would like a replacement for the EF180 macro... maybe TS-R 200mm with 1:1 would be an (expensive) option for them.

No thank you, I want a straight RF 180 or 200 mm macro lens. I have the same experience as @koenkooi with the TS-E 90 mm lens.

 

[koenkooi]

No thank you, I want a straight RF 180 or 200 mm macro lens. I have the same experience as @koenkooi with the TS-E 90 mm lens.

I dug up the spreadsheet I made for the TS-E90: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I1kfoMHJ1VukfRlFtWUgk5_PKrOm1Q3JAMRQ6FNkyV0/edit#gid=0

I think the goal was to tilt the focus plane enough to get the top of a flower completely in focus while photographing it from the side, so close to 90 degrees of focus plane tilt. As you can see from the spreadsheet, that would require stepping back to get a focus distance of at least 65cm.

Here's an example of a test shot using a tripod and the lens at f/4.5. The CA is horrible and even taking in account that the OLPF on the 7D is emulating an uneven layer of petroleum jelly, it's much, much softer than the EF100 non-L I compared it with.

 

[Del Paso]

No thank you, I want a straight RF 180 or 200 mm macro lens. I have the same experience as @koenkooi with the TS-E 90 mm lens.

Provided the 180 macro is also excellent at infinity. My EF 180 was a huge disappointment in this regard (guess I got a lemon!). Otherwise, I'll keep using the EF 70-200 F4 L II with extension tubes.

 

[neuroanatomist]

that's a wonderful image

Thanks!