Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

[Ruined]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

That's not an exaggeration, it's actually probably a conservative estimate. The 50mm L 1.2 has a resolution of 1400 lpph average @ f/1.4, which translates to around 3.4 Megapixels of resolution. There is no recent retro focal design with aspherical elements that has a resolution of less than 2800 lpph average at f/1.4, which translates to 14 megapixels.

I believe that point and shoots to dslrs is a good comparison. Or more accurately, wide open the Sigma 50mm art will at a minimum have the same difference between its competitors in performance as a D800 with the sharpest lens available versus a smartphone camera.

I think if you bought the 50mm f/1.2L looking for sharpness you missed the point, because sharpness was not the main goal of the lens design. There are plenty of sharp lenses in the Canon lineup including the $99 50mm 1.8 and under $300 50mm 1.4. This year there will likely be a ~$600 50mm f/1.8 IS that will likely be the sharpest yet.

But, none of those lenses have the bokeh of the 50mm f/1.2L, and that is the real purpose of the lens. If you want sharpness, get a f/1.4 50mm. If you want that ultra creamy bokeh, the 50mm f/1.2L is where its at. Yes, the 85L also has creamy bokeh and is sharper, but it is 85mm which may be unusable in tight quarters. Its frankly amazing that Canon was able to get bokeh so beautiful on a 50mm, given the wide angle.

Example: For weddings, an overall beautiful picture is generally more desirable than exposing every pore on the bride's face. If I want to do that I'll use my 24-70 II, 100L Macro, or 70-200 II IS.

 

[Viggo]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

For me the issue with the 50 L is simply out of center quality. If it had the same sharpness on the outer focusing points on the 1dx/5d3 as it did center, and AF like the 35 L I would hardly use anything else. But anything off center at bigger than f2.0 is veryvery emergencies only.

I'm selling my Zeiss and wondering about a 50 L again, or wait for reviews of the Siggy. I love the 50 focal.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

That's not an exaggeration, it's actually probably a conservative estimate. The 50mm L 1.2 has a resolution of 1400 lpph average @ f/1.4, which translates to around 3.4 Megapixels of resolution. There is no recent retro focal design with aspherical elements that has a resolution of less than 2800 lpph average at f/1.4, which translates to 14 megapixels.

I believe that point and shoots to dslrs is a good comparison. Or more accurately, wide open the Sigma 50mm art will at a minimum have the same difference between its competitors in performance as a D800 with the sharpest lens available versus a smartphone camera.

Radiating, I really kind of see your point. If that lens wasn't a Canon L, I agree with you, it would have many fans fewer.

L lenses aren't just about optical quality, it's the whole build and reliability features which are designed into the lenes too. A 50mm f1.4 USM's build is a toy in comparision.

 

[Ruined]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

For me the issue with the 50 L is simply out of center quality. If it had the same sharpness on the outer focusing points on the 1dx/5d3 as it did center, and AF like the 35 L I would hardly use anything else. But anything off center at bigger than f2.0 is veryvery emergencies only.

I'm selling my Zeiss and wondering about a 50 L again, or wait for reviews of the Siggy. I love the 50 focal.

I can understand your desire for the sharpest lens, but again that was obviously not the vision the designers had for the 50mm f/1.2L; there are very obvious things they could have done to increase sharpness in the design, but again that was not the point. The 50L was designed to be a high quality lens that prioritizes bokeh over everything else, and it has an extremely unique look that can make your work stand out from the crowd. Movies have been shot with the 50L because of its bokeh.

Again, these days super sharp lenses are a dime-a-dozen, but a wide lens that also has spectacular bokeh (significantly better than the 35L IMO, for instance) is rare. And of course, all of these 1.4 lenses don't do 1.2.

 

[mackguyver]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

For me the issue with the 50 L is simply out of center quality. If it had the same sharpness on the outer focusing points on the 1dx/5d3 as it did center, and AF like the 35 L I would hardly use anything else. But anything off center at bigger than f2.0 is veryvery emergencies only.

I'm selling my Zeiss and wondering about a 50 L again, or wait for reviews of the Siggy. I love the 50 focal.

I can understand your desire for the sharpest lens, but again that was obviously not the vision the designers had for the 50mm f/1.2L; there are very obvious things they could have done to increase sharpness in the design, but again that was not the point. The 50L was designed to be a high quality lens that prioritizes bokeh over everything else, and it has an extremely unique look that can make your work stand out from the crowd. Movies have been shot with the 50L because of its bokeh.

Again, these days super sharp lenses are a dime-a-dozen, but a wide lens that also has spectacular bokeh (significantly better than the 35L IMO, for instance) is rare. And of course, all of these 1.4 lenses don't do 1.2.

+1 - well said, and to quote Roger Cicala from Lensrentals:

"Well, we could talk about this for hours: this is one of the most controversial, irritating, and spectacular lenses in the lineup. I won’t pretend to know what you’ll think of it, but our customers are evenly divided with “I love it” and “I hate it.” The bottom line: when this lens is right, the shots are spectacular and the background blur is awesome, just like the 85 f/1.2. But it’s more finicky and more difficult to get those shots with this lens."
Source: http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/normal-range/canon-50mm-f1.2l

 

[Ruined]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

For me the issue with the 50 L is simply out of center quality. If it had the same sharpness on the outer focusing points on the 1dx/5d3 as it did center, and AF like the 35 L I would hardly use anything else. But anything off center at bigger than f2.0 is veryvery emergencies only.

I'm selling my Zeiss and wondering about a 50 L again, or wait for reviews of the Siggy. I love the 50 focal.

I can understand your desire for the sharpest lens, but again that was obviously not the vision the designers had for the 50mm f/1.2L; there are very obvious things they could have done to increase sharpness in the design, but again that was not the point. The 50L was designed to be a high quality lens that prioritizes bokeh over everything else, and it has an extremely unique look that can make your work stand out from the crowd. Movies have been shot with the 50L because of its bokeh.

Again, these days super sharp lenses are a dime-a-dozen, but a wide lens that also has spectacular bokeh (significantly better than the 35L IMO, for instance) is rare. And of course, all of these 1.4 lenses don't do 1.2.

+1 - well said, and to quote Roger Cicala from Lensrentals:

"Well, we could talk about this for hours: this is one of the most controversial, irritating, and spectacular lenses in the lineup. I won’t pretend to know what you’ll think of it, but our customers are evenly divided with “I love it” and “I hate it.” The bottom line: when this lens is right, the shots are spectacular and the background blur is awesome, just like the 85 f/1.2. But it’s more finicky and more difficult to get those shots with this lens."
Source: http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/normal-range/canon-50mm-f1.2l

Sure,
The way I look at it, the 50L is for a special crowd, and is especially beneficial to wedding photographers. It just has that special glow to it similar to the 85L, but at a focal length that is more usable indoors. Extremely flattering for couples, creating a bit of a dreamy depature from reality in the pics. If you are just about pixel peeping, this is not the lens for you and there are far cheaper ones that will do the job you are looking for.

The tradeoff for the mind-blowing bokeh is sharpness with this lens, as well as some quirks that require a bit more knowledge and skill than the typical lens. But, aside from the $10k Leica Noctilux you probably aren't going to find a 50mm lens that exceeds the Canon 50mm f/1.2L in bokeh (and those two are surprisingly close from the online comparisons I've seen). That is the point, not sharpness - which can be easily had at a MUCH cheaper price point in primes, or a zoom lke the 24-70 II.

The 50L should not be your only lens, but it sure contributes to having a killer lens lineup in your arsenal.

 

[mackguyver]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

The tradeoff for the mind-blowing bokeh is sharpness with this lens, as well as some quirks that require a bit more knowledge and skill than the typical lens. But, aside from the $10k Leica Noctilux you probably aren't going to find a 50mm lens that exceeds the Canon 50mm f/1.2L in bokeh (and those two are surprisingly close from the online comparisons I've seen). That is the point, not sharpness - which can be easily had at a MUCH cheaper price point in primes, or a zoom lke the 24-70 II.

The 50L should not be your only lens, but it sure contributes to having a killer lens lineup in your arsenal.

Speaking of the Leica, Photozone reviewed it recently and it's pretty similar in performance at max aperture to the 50L (but that money does buy the f/0.95 aperture!):
http://www.photozone.de/leicam/860-noctilux50asph?start=1

 

[mackguyver]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Hands on: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art ignores Canon L, Nikon glass and targets Zeiss Otus. No, really.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass

 

[mrsfotografie]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Hands on: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art ignores Canon L, Nikon glass and targets Zeiss Otus. No, really.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass

Go Sigma, Go! 8)

As you can see from my signature, I'm a fan of Sigma at least in regards to their wide to normal lens line-up. I wonder if I'll be able to resist the new 50 if it really turns out to be that good...

 

[Quasimodo]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

The tradeoff for the mind-blowing bokeh is sharpness with this lens, as well as some quirks that require a bit more knowledge and skill than the typical lens. But, aside from the $10k Leica Noctilux you probably aren't going to find a 50mm lens that exceeds the Canon 50mm f/1.2L in bokeh (and those two are surprisingly close from the online comparisons I've seen). That is the point, not sharpness - which can be easily had at a MUCH cheaper price point in primes, or a zoom lke the 24-70 II.

The 50L should not be your only lens, but it sure contributes to having a killer lens lineup in your arsenal.

Speaking of the Leica, Photozone reviewed it recently and it's pretty similar in performance at max aperture to the 50L (but that money does buy the f/0.95 aperture!):
http://www.photozone.de/leicam/860-noctilux50asph?start=1

If I am not mistaken, Canon had a 50mm .95 lens too, but that was in the film days

Edit: I just saw now that it was mentioned in the link you posted.

 

[Ruined]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Hands on: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art ignores Canon L, Nikon glass and targets Zeiss Otus. No, really.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass

Not surprising, and what I expected given the similar retrofocal design.

I don't believe the Canon double gauss design is inferior to the retrofocal design. They have different design goals.

Canon's 50mm f/1.2 double gauss design purposely does not correct a good portion of the spherical abberation in order to provide more dreamy bokeh, and this remaining spherical abberation while providing a more dreamy look contributes to the challenges in focusing at more narrow apertures. Results are superior bokeh, comparable small size, wider aperture. Think of it as a modern-day compromise between good sharpness and a soft focus lens.

On the other hand, the retrofocal design is much larger and more complex - the advantage being that more elements can be introduced to correct and manipulate the incoming light. Results can be great sharpness, comparable larger size, but bokeh is not as dreamy (as correcting more of the spherical abberation is one of the reasons for the increased sharpness) - aperture also slower.

So, the bottom line is:
Canon f/1.2 (Double Gauss) - buy if you want the more dreamy bokeh/wider max aperture/smaller size
Retrofocal Design - buy if you want more sharpness/narrower max aperture

I think the Canon would be better for weddings and model photography, while the retrofocal designs might be better for projects where you need maximum sharpness. Personally, I already have a whole collection of super sharp lenses and bought the Canon specifically for its flattering presentation of couples/weddings, where seeing every pore and wart is not necessarily desired - plus the fantastic bokeh.

 

[Eldar]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Having bought the Otus, I´m not sure how much I Should look forward to a full review of this lens, but never the less I Really do.

I also fully agree with Ruined, about his assessment of the value of the 50 f1.2L. You don´t always want the extreme sharpness and reveal every little ugly detail, but rather have the creamy and beautiful bokeh. I must say though that I find the bokeh from the Otus is quite acceptable.

I don´t have any doubts that the Sigma will be superb in sharpness. But I wonder how the bokeh will be.

 

[mackguyver]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Having bought the Otus, I´m not sure how much I Should look forward to a full review of this lens, but never the less I Really do.

I also fully agree with Ruined, about his assessment of the value of the 50 f1.2L. You don´t always want the extreme sharpness and reveal every little ugly detail, but rather have the creamy and beautiful bokeh. I must say though that I find the bokeh from the Otus is quite acceptable.

I don´t have any doubts that the Sigma will be superb in sharpness. But I wonder how the bokeh will be.

Eldar, given the sample shots you've posted, I'd say the bokeh from the Otus is more than okay! I also wonder about the new Sigma's bokeh and plan to buy one for comparison.

For owners of the 35 Art, how does the build quality compare to the L lenses? That's the other reason I bought the 50L and as I haven't actually held 35 Art, I'm wondering how they match up.

 

[Eldar]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Having bought the Otus, I´m not sure how much I Should look forward to a full review of this lens, but never the less I Really do.

I also fully agree with Ruined, about his assessment of the value of the 50 f1.2L. You don´t always want the extreme sharpness and reveal every little ugly detail, but rather have the creamy and beautiful bokeh. I must say though that I find the bokeh from the Otus is quite acceptable.

I don´t have any doubts that the Sigma will be superb in sharpness. But I wonder how the bokeh will be.

Eldar, given the sample shots you've posted, I'd say the bokeh from the Otus is more than okay! I also wonder about the new Sigma's bokeh and plan to buy one for comparison.

For owners of the 35 Art, how does the build quality compare to the L lenses? That's the other reason I bought the 50L and as I haven't actually held 35 Art, I'm wondering how they match up.

I have the Sigma 35/1.4 and I remember the first time I held it and the Zeiss-feeling it gave me. It is plastic in some areas where Zeiss is metal, but so are the L-series. It does not have a hard stop at MFD and infinity, but the L-series are the same (well, not all of them).

It is not weather sealed, which is an issue for me, even though it has not been a problem so far. Well I think it has not been a problem. For the AF on my copy started drifting and a recent AFMA was 7 points different to the initial AFMA I did when I bought it. If that repeats itself, I´ll send it in and we´ll see what Sigma says. Maybe some moisture has entered the body and done something.

Being an f/1.4 lens I would have preferred to have a little more movement for the focusing mechanism. From MFD to infinity is about 45deg. To really fine tune focus it would have been preferable to have at least 60deg for improved precision. The focus drift may have had something to do with that, I don´t know. For comparison, even though not totally relevant, the Otus focusing ring moves about 240deg (visual approximation).

But summing up, the Sigma is very close to the L-series in mechanical build, but not quite the same.

But another comparison. I held the much acclaimed Nikon 14-24 the other day, for the first time. And it might be that my expectations were a bit too high, but that lens gave me a real plastic feeling. Turning the zoom ring was really plastic. So compared to that, I would say the Sigma feels very good.

 

[mackguyver]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

I have the Sigma 35/1.4 and I remember the first time I held it and the Zeiss-feeling it gave me. It is plastic in some areas where Zeiss is metal, but so are the L-series. It does not have a hard stop at MFD and infinity, but the L-series are the same (well, not all of them).

It is not weather sealed, which is an issue for me, even though it has not been a problem so far. Well I think it has not been a problem. For the AF on my copy started drifting and a recent AFMA was 7 points different to the initial AFMA I did when I bought it. If that repeats itself, I´ll send it in and we´ll see what Sigma says. Maybe some moisture has entered the body and done something.

Being an f/1.4 lens I would have preferred to have a little more movement for the focusing mechanism. From MFD to infinity is about 45deg. To really fine tune focus it would have been preferable to have at least 60deg for improved precision. The focus drift may have had something to do with that, I don´t know. For comparison, even though not totally relevant, the Otus focusing ring moves about 240deg (visual approximation).

But summing up, the Sigma is very close to the L-series in mechanical build, but not quite the same.

But another comparison. I held the much acclaimed Nikon 14-24 the other day, for the first time. And it might be that my expectations were a bit too high, but that lens gave me a real plastic feeling. Turning the zoom ring was really plastic. So compared to that, I would say the Sigma feels very good.

Thanks for the great information and I hope things work out with your Sigma 35/1.4. It sounds like the new 50 could be quite a lens if it lives up the hype (unlike your Nikon 14-24 experience).

 

[NancyP]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Some fun can be had with old f/1.2 and f/1.4 film lenses of the double Gauss (Planar) design. Low contrast and tons of aberration at f/1.2, but the dreamy look can be had for 300 bucks if old film lenses are adapted. Of course, then you have manual focus and manual aperture and no electronic feedback to deal with. I have been enjoying an old Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 on my 6D. It's a b... to focus at f/1.2, and the bokeh isn't up to the 50L quality, but still, it's fun, and the lens is sharp sharp sharp at f/2.8-5.6.

 

[Viggo]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Nothing new about the 50A? No pre order, weight TBA, no price, no word, no rumors, no nothing?

 

[Zv]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Nothing new about the 50A? No pre order, weight TBA, no price, no word, no rumors, no nothing?

I think they're waiting until CP+ on the 13th - 16th Feb to announce the price etc. I'm tempted to go to it. One Shinkansen ride away for me. Plus they seem to be giving away tickets if you register.

 

[Viggo]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Nothing new about the 50A? No pre order, weight TBA, no price, no word, no rumors, no nothing?

I think they're waiting until CP+ on the 13th - 16th Feb to announce the price etc. I'm tempted to go to it. One Shinkansen ride away for me. Plus they seem to be giving away tickets if you register.

Thanks! That makes sense, I still have a couple of 35's to sell, but man! I wanna have a go with that Siggy ;D

 

[Zv]

Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More

Nothing new about the 50A? No pre order, weight TBA, no price, no word, no rumors, no nothing?

I think they're waiting until CP+ on the 13th - 16th Feb to announce the price etc. I'm tempted to go to it. One Shinkansen ride away for me. Plus they seem to be giving away tickets if you register.

Thanks! That makes sense, I still have a couple of 35's to sell, but man! I wanna have a go with that Siggy ;D

I know how you feel though about waiting. It seems like forever. I think the price will be around the same as the 35 1.4 Art. The price is not the issue for me it's availability. Take my money Sigma! Just give me it already!!

I also want to see how it stacks up against the old one and the 50L. Doubt I'll buy the 50L ever but I am curious about the creamy bokeh, will this new Sigma provide us the delicious bokeh we all crave??