...many more images here at....http://www.ivanmuller.co.za/blog-item/street-photographs-fete-de-la-musique-melville-johannesburg
street photography...feedback please!
- Thread starter Ivan Muller
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I see you shot in color then converted to black and white, I'm looking for shooting in black and white from the get go, and trying to use my mind and "see" the world in black and white as I shoot, but I'm finding it difficult to imagine that. My mentor stated he can do that sort of. Have you ever heard of doing this?
Nice pictures by the way, the two chicks kissing was an eye opener at the end, great capture / timing. Congrats.
Peace! 8)
Nice pictures by the way, the two chicks kissing was an eye opener at the end, great capture / timing. Congrats.
Peace! 8)
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The best B&W photographers "see" in B&W. Part of the trick is looking for shapes, patterns and textures, but mood comes into it too. When it comes to digital, conversions often work better than actually shooting in B&W, as to get the best tones, you need the full tonal range to start with. Digital B&W settings tend to be too flat to get real impact, without alot of work (which you can't really do from a jpeg). Oversaturating before conversion can give some real impact. Of course black and white film is another story, as it has been designed differently.
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blaydese said:
Sorry for the late reply!
Seeing in B&W comes naturally if you shoot B&W all the time...when you mix it it becomes more difficult. Think about this.....in the days of film i shot almost exclusively b&w with my 4x5 field camera. the view on the ground glass was upside down...but I never noticed it, it becomes completely natural after a while...Ansel Adams talked about pre visualization..i o w you 'see' the final, in his case, print, before you trip the shutter....thus you teach yourself how the tones and contrast etc etc will look before you make the image... the mind can do anything, all it take s is a bit of practice!
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blaydese said:
Kernuak said:
@blaydese;Ivan Muller said:
Shoot in RAW + JPG, set your camera to shoot in B+W. Your review on the camera screen will be the embedded JPG in B+W, the JPG on your computer will also be B+W, the RAW will be in color.
In post, the color RAW will give you the most to work with to get to what you visualized as you shot.
Ansel was real big on visualization. He worked hard getting things just so in camera with his zone system, film and filter choices all the while visualizing what else he was going to do in post, both while developing and printing.
Ansel was well aware that digital imaging was in the fairly near future, I think he'd be delighted with what he could do with RAW and post.
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In my experience high contrast scenes are always going to work well, look for deep shadows next to bright highlights. Sharp, clearly defined edges. Texture such as stones, rocks and brickwork all work well too. For skies look for storm clouds or clouds with definition. Portraits can work well if you know how to light them in a dramatic way.
For post processing I use Nik Software Silver Efex pro. The high structure preset really brings out the detail. A quick n dirty method I use in LR is to convert to black and white in the basic tab then crank up the blacks and overexpose until the whites are almost blown. Then add clarity and contrast to taste.
I used to convert almost half my pics to black n white simply because of ugly lighting and color that i wanted to hide. I now try and work on my composition and lighting. I only convert to black and white now if I have a specific reason to. It's too easy to fall into that "oh it looks crap in color so I'll just do it black n white" routine.
Most color shots with good lighting also work well as a B&W.
For post processing I use Nik Software Silver Efex pro. The high structure preset really brings out the detail. A quick n dirty method I use in LR is to convert to black and white in the basic tab then crank up the blacks and overexpose until the whites are almost blown. Then add clarity and contrast to taste.
I used to convert almost half my pics to black n white simply because of ugly lighting and color that i wanted to hide. I now try and work on my composition and lighting. I only convert to black and white now if I have a specific reason to. It's too easy to fall into that "oh it looks crap in color so I'll just do it black n white" routine.
Most color shots with good lighting also work well as a B&W.
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Similar "general" guidelines that apply to photojournalism also apply to street work though the priority in the former is to get the shot (artistry counts, but the documentation counts even more and could mean the difference between a check and a smile from the desk editor)...street photography though based on similar ideals is somewhat less deadline oriented and more condusive to atristic experimentation...having started out in the former and a practioner of the latter, I can say converting from color is fine in the digital era... there is nothing inherently wrong with shooting in color and converting in post.
I do agree "seeing in B&W" is important. The street photographers and photojournalist I admire see in "tones" first even before they frame the shots.
Here are a few I posted under 35L thread that rely on contrast and gradation and not on color.
I do agree "seeing in B&W" is important. The street photographers and photojournalist I admire see in "tones" first even before they frame the shots.
Here are a few I posted under 35L thread that rely on contrast and gradation and not on color.
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.
Here's my little mental checklist when I'm thinking B & W:
Light & shadow
Dark & bright
Shape & form
Pattern & repetition
Line & space
The world definitely looks different when you look at it that way.
Here's my little mental checklist when I'm thinking B & W:
Light & shadow
Dark & bright
Shape & form
Pattern & repetition
Line & space
The world definitely looks different when you look at it that way.
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distant.star said:
Here is an event shot from me relating to lines, shapes, and repetition...with the humble 24-105 at 24mm.
While it is not "street", we have segued into B&W there, and I think street rules can be effectively applied to non ceremonial events.
Note to pixel peepers: don't!
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Some photographers love to talk about "seeing in black and white." Most of the time it's total b.s. What matters is the final product. Doesn't matter if you originally "saw" it in black and white or if you only saw it that way during processing. Use whatever works for the image.
I shot in black and white almost all my life. I grew up in the era when "serious" photographers never shot color. Now I love color. Too many photographers use black and white as an affectation to make mediocre pictures seem serious.
However, that's not the case with these images by Ivan. They are wonderful in black and white and work much better than they did in color. Fantastic images.
As a fellow photographer and friend of mine used to say: some people's taste is all in their mouth. There is a difference between an image that is "busy" and an image that has a lot going on in it. These images are not "busy" but they certainly have a lot going on in them.
I shot in black and white almost all my life. I grew up in the era when "serious" photographers never shot color. Now I love color. Too many photographers use black and white as an affectation to make mediocre pictures seem serious.
However, that's not the case with these images by Ivan. They are wonderful in black and white and work much better than they did in color. Fantastic images.
Stubi said:
As a fellow photographer and friend of mine used to say: some people's taste is all in their mouth. There is a difference between an image that is "busy" and an image that has a lot going on in it. These images are not "busy" but they certainly have a lot going on in them.
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P
paul13walnut5
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On the two you've posted: too much motion blur going on. Need a faster shutter, enough to get very slight motion blur, not as much as you have here.
First picture is great, I feel like i'm observing a scene, I love the seated womans experession and depth of layers to this image.
2nd one, not so sure about, the direct eye contact makes it look more like a portrait. I don't like this so much when I'm in voyeur mode, as I like my street photography to be.
Contrast is funny as well. The first image has tonality nailed, look at the ethnicities and the textures etc, 2nd one looks burned out.
I used to love shooting B+W on chromagenic film and would use a red or orange filter to help me see without colour. It's more difficult with SLR's because this screws up the bayer and the amount of detail. Better to shoot colour and channel mix the RAW before conversion. I wish there was a way to filter the viewfinder only, I know you can put on RAW+JPEG and the mono conversion, but this is only any use for live view, maybe not a bad thing if you are confident zone focusing, which after a bit of practise is probably the best way for street.
First picture is great, I feel like i'm observing a scene, I love the seated womans experession and depth of layers to this image.
2nd one, not so sure about, the direct eye contact makes it look more like a portrait. I don't like this so much when I'm in voyeur mode, as I like my street photography to be.
Contrast is funny as well. The first image has tonality nailed, look at the ethnicities and the textures etc, 2nd one looks burned out.
I used to love shooting B+W on chromagenic film and would use a red or orange filter to help me see without colour. It's more difficult with SLR's because this screws up the bayer and the amount of detail. Better to shoot colour and channel mix the RAW before conversion. I wish there was a way to filter the viewfinder only, I know you can put on RAW+JPEG and the mono conversion, but this is only any use for live view, maybe not a bad thing if you are confident zone focusing, which after a bit of practise is probably the best way for street.
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blaydese said:
Well, if you're shooting in RAW....everything is in color...as that you get what the sensor sees. So, there is no such thing as "shooting black and white" really anymore. I guess if you're shooting jpg and use the styles, then, yes, you only get B&W, but no one should really only be shooting in jpg these days, you want RAW so you can have more leeway for post processing.
cayenne
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The same rules apply to color or black and white. Composition, line and form, pattern and juxtaposition of visual elements all play a critical roll in making something visually interesting.
I agree that seeing in Black and white is BS. Everyone sees in color unless you are colorblind. Envisioning what something will look like reproduced in black and white is a skill that is learned through practice and patience.
As an artist who works in a wide range of mediums in addition to photography I have learned to do this. When you have to draw something in black and white, you learn to interpret color as values and through trial and error learn what works and what renders flat.
With that said, your first images looks like street photography to me. The second violates the rule of observation. The subject should be involved in their activity and not the photographer.
I agree that seeing in Black and white is BS. Everyone sees in color unless you are colorblind. Envisioning what something will look like reproduced in black and white is a skill that is learned through practice and patience.
As an artist who works in a wide range of mediums in addition to photography I have learned to do this. When you have to draw something in black and white, you learn to interpret color as values and through trial and error learn what works and what renders flat.
With that said, your first images looks like street photography to me. The second violates the rule of observation. The subject should be involved in their activity and not the photographer.
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"Seeing in Black and White" is not BS, but you shouldn't take it literally. It's the ability to see the contrast in a color scene the way it would be represented in black and white. It's an acquired skill. Yes, you can make good black and white images from your RAW files if you don't work on seeing this way, but it will take you longer in post and you will have less black and white keepers.
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