*UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

[neuroanatomist]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I'll take the supposition one step further and ask if such a RAW would be a firmware update to the DX2. Seems logical the DX2 would also have all the hardware necessary to generate such a file (whatever this file is on the 5D4)

I'll take it three steps back and say it's just in-camera RAW editing/conversion, given the icon on button at the top left. (above Rate).

No too sure. Another ongoing thread offered a better translation than google and if correct (and I believe he is) we have a new RAW for DPAF which makes sense given what ML did with dual iso hacking on the 5D3. Canon could have built a far more sophisticated flavor built in house for DPAF, which would make a lot of sense with that sort of tech

I'm not sure, either. But I would get your hopes up based on speculation about a translatated rumor.

 

[Sharlin]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

No too sure. Another ongoing thread offered a better translation than google and if correct (and I believe he is) we have a new RAW for DPAF which makes sense given what ML did with dual iso hacking on the 5D3. Canon could have built a far more sophisticated flavor built in house for DPAF, which would make a lot of sense with that sort of tech

I'm not sure, either. But I would get your hopes up based on speculation about a translated rumor.

Craig updated the post (but I'm not sure if Thomas has insider info or is just speculating!)

“The way Dual Pixel works, 30MP DP sensor means a 60MP dual pixel raw file with a new RRGGGGBB pattern (vs RGGB), so potentially better dynamic range, and maybe an improved debayering algorithm.” Thanks Thomas

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

No too sure. Another ongoing thread offered a better translation than google and if correct (and I believe he is) we have a new RAW for DPAF which makes sense given what ML did with dual iso hacking on the 5D3. Canon could have built a far more sophisticated flavor built in house for DPAF, which would make a lot of sense with that sort of tech

I'm not sure, either. But I would get your hopes up based on speculation about a translated rumor.

Craig updated the post (but I'm not sure if Thomas has insider info or is just speculating!)

“The way Dual Pixel works, 30MP DP sensor means a 60MP dual pixel raw file with a new RRGGGGBB pattern (vs RGGB), so potentially better dynamic range, and maybe an improved debayering algorithm.” Thanks Thomas

Not sure who Thomas is, but with DPAF the 'dual pixel' part is two sub-pixels sitting under the same microlens, which means they're also sitting under the same color lens of the CFA. So I'm not sure how one really concludes there's a new pattern...unless you want a 60 MP RAW file with a 3:1 aspect ratio instead of the usual 3:2 (at least the way Canon diagrams DPAF).

 

[Marauder]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Looking at the images of the rear, I'm very surprised that it doesn't have the same AF Area Selection Lever attached to the joystick that the 7D Mark II has. This is probably the best ergonomic advancement the 7D Mark II brought to the table and it makes changing AF areas incredibly quick and easy, or it can be customized to do any number of useful things. It was rightly praised by reviewers of the 7D Mark II (pretty well unanimously, at least for any reviews I read). I figured it was a given for the 5D Mark IV (or the 1DX II for that matter). I wonder why on earth they left it off???

Puzzled. ???

Maybe the new button to the upper right of the 'Q' button is the new AF selection joystick? I have no idea

Yeah, I was looking at that button too and wondering if it has the same set of custom functions. Perhaps in testing they determined it was the more logical place to put it for the average user's grip--although I certainly haven't found the placement on the 7D II to be a bad one at all. Quite the opposite--it's very well placed and it makes changing AF area with the toggle then going to the joystick for AF point selection very rapid. Curious to see if this new button is its replacement and how well reviewers find its placement if so.

 

[tron]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

No too sure. Another ongoing thread offered a better translation than google and if correct (and I believe he is) we have a new RAW for DPAF which makes sense given what ML did with dual iso hacking on the 5D3. Canon could have built a far more sophisticated flavor built in house for DPAF, which would make a lot of sense with that sort of tech

I'm not sure, either. But I would get your hopes up based on speculation about a translated rumor.

Craig updated the post (but I'm not sure if Thomas has insider info or is just speculating!)

“The way Dual Pixel works, 30MP DP sensor means a 60MP dual pixel raw file with a new RRGGGGBB pattern (vs RGGB), so potentially better dynamic range, and maybe an improved debayering algorithm.” Thanks Thomas

Not sure who Thomas is, but with DPAF the 'dual pixel' part is two sub-pixels sitting under the same microlens, which means they're also sitting under the same color lens of the CFA. So I'm not sure how one really concludes there's a new pattern...unless you want a 60 MP RAW file with a 3:1 aspect ratio instead of the usual 3:2 (at least the way Canon diagrams DPAF).

Interesting info. I wonder if Canon can include their dual amplification patent and improve DR somehow. But I am not optimistic. I believe it is too early for Canon to implement this.

 

[klickflip]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

This sounds great to me, predominantly a photographer that does occasional video jobs too.
First thing 30MP is GREAT ! And hopefully the dual pixel rrggbb is something to do with helping reduce noise or more detail or colours like Fuji did while back. Also it says a new Bayer layout which would explain a fuji like approach.

I have friends who used to swear by the Fuji dslrs for colour and quality of image even though they weren't the highest MP they reckoned they had more detail and colour fidelity.

I've been using the 5D SR sometimes and holding off buying one, the detail and being able to offer larger file sizes to clients for billboards or in store large banners is great.
The 5`d SR has the same amount of noise as 5D III and it really gets horrible when you push the processing to get a bit more out of shadow areas , whereas Sony / Nikon you have so much more scope to play with processing.

I'd say this is a great upgrade for photographers and decent upgrade for video guys. 4k is great to offer even tho most clients won't be able to utilise it, but they like buying it! Much more excited about this than when the 5D III got released or 5D Sr.
Now if they may have developed a great sensor , let's see that in a new 5`d SR mkii next year

 

[PureClassA]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

No too sure. Another ongoing thread offered a better translation than google and if correct (and I believe he is) we have a new RAW for DPAF which makes sense given what ML did with dual iso hacking on the 5D3. Canon could have built a far more sophisticated flavor built in house for DPAF, which would make a lot of sense with that sort of tech

I'm not sure, either. But I would get your hopes up based on speculation about a translated rumor.

Craig updated the post (but I'm not sure if Thomas has insider info or is just speculating!)

“The way Dual Pixel works, 30MP DP sensor means a 60MP dual pixel raw file with a new RRGGGGBB pattern (vs RGGB), so potentially better dynamic range, and maybe an improved debayering algorithm.” Thanks Thomas

Not sure who Thomas is, but with DPAF the 'dual pixel' part is two sub-pixels sitting under the same microlens, which means they're also sitting under the same color lens of the CFA. So I'm not sure how one really concludes there's a new pattern...unless you want a 60 MP RAW file with a 3:1 aspect ratio instead of the usual 3:2 (at least the way Canon diagrams DPAF).

I'll give Craig the nod if he decided to post it, but I'm with Neuro on this. Same microlens, different subpixel, can't see how the pattern changes. I was just assuming this could be where each of the two sub pixels of the pair is simply reading at two different ISOs like 100 and 800 and thus creating a NEW RAW type code that no one but Canon would yet be able to dechipher, and such RAW code would combine the information from each sub pixel back into one, but with the added exposure latitude / DR of a dual ISO exposure. SO the aspect ratio would be the same at 3:2, but RAW conversion would have extra work to bring it back to that

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I was just assuming this could be where each of the two sub pixels of the pair is simply reading at two different ISOs like 100 and 800 and thus creating a NEW RAW type code that no one but Canon would yet be able to dechipher, and such RAW code would combine the information from each sub pixel back into one, but with the added exposure latitude / DR of a dual ISO exposure. SO the aspect ratio would be the same at 3:2, but RAW conversion would have extra work to bring it back to that

That would require independent amplification circuitry for the two photodiodes in each pixel. Certainly Canon can read them out separately, but doubling the number of amplifiers might be a challenge and would obviously require different hardware. But perhaps that hardware has been part of DPAF from the beginning?

 

[unfocused]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Whoa there, cowboys, time to rein in those horses.

Better check out this comment from someone who actually understands Japanese.

...I think it is written in typical Japanese hyperbolic promotional language. I would not read too much into it as other are doing.

これまでに無い=previously non-existent

後処理の調整=adjustments in post-processing

が可能な=which are made/rendered (ie adjustments in post-processing) possible

デュアルピクセルRAWファイル=dual pixel RAW file

...I would translate that as "dual pixel RAW files open up previously unobtainable degrees of latitude in post-production processing". Or more literally "dual pixel RAW files opens up possibilities in post-processing adjustments that previously never existed".

If you wanted to say "editable dual pixels" in Japanese it would be better to say 直接調整が可能なデュアルピクセルRAWファイル implying that direct editing at pixel level is possible. But I do not think that is at all what is being implied here. It is clearly more a case of the files offering greater latitude in post. It may be little more than a hyperbolic way of saying that you can recover shadows better.

Like Neuro, I don't know who "Thomas" is, but he clearly doesn't understand how DPAF works and should have never been quoted as an authority.

 

[Markfocus]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I hope Canon offers a hybrid OVF/ EVF viewfinder so we can use the viewfinder while shooting video. That would be a game-changer for Canon.

 

[PureClassA]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I hope Canon offers a hybrid OVF/ EVF viewfinder so we can use the viewfinder while shooting video. That would be a game-changer for Canon.

No need to. Here's a vastly better option:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1086847&gclid=CjwKEAjwltC9BRDRvMfD2N66nlISJACq8591TznPlaF4OHPLhgof1RNxV1mlN7GA9hmpewwKjoSiGRoCCHrw_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677562%2C&A=details&Q=

 

[PureClassA]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I was just assuming this could be where each of the two sub pixels of the pair is simply reading at two different ISOs like 100 and 800 and thus creating a NEW RAW type code that no one but Canon would yet be able to dechipher, and such RAW code would combine the information from each sub pixel back into one, but with the added exposure latitude / DR of a dual ISO exposure. SO the aspect ratio would be the same at 3:2, but RAW conversion would have extra work to bring it back to that

That would require independent amplification circuitry for the two photodiodes in each pixel. Certainly Canon can read them out separately, but doubling the number of amplifiers might be a challenge and would obviously require different hardware. But perhaps that hardware has been part of DPAF from the beginning?

Ahh, excellent point. I forgot about that. And yes, I suppose it could be already in there, otherwise Canon would (I assume) had to have created a whole new DPAF sensor design for this camera since everything is built on chip now (wait, are the amplifiers on chip too? or just the ADC?). Perhaps the column parallel ADCs will play a role similarly. I dont think 7D2 had that. Predated the on chip ADC builds. 80D and 1DX2 does though.

 

[TedBedlam]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Being a first-time poster, I am cringing in advance at posting at all given the heated emotions here as well as the incredible amount of collective knowledge and experience but...

I am really looking forward to the potential of this camera body. All information being speculation at this point, it almost nearly fits all my needs as a hybrid photographer/videographer (I spend most of my time shooting high-end photobooths, event videos, etc.). Given the photographic limitations of products like the GH4 and Panasonic's abysmal customer service, I am glad to find a body and brand which cater to someone seeking to shoot wedding photos as well as occasional video. Mind you, I would be ecstatic if the video turned out to be 4:2:2 10 bit for color grading but I am not well-versed technically to even know if that's possible all other rumors remaining the same. I can see pure photo enthusiasts not needing such additional specs (for a presumed premium in cost) but I've also read some espousing that cost drops due to the expanded market and I'm fairly certain I am inclined to agree with the latter stance given the hubub on various wedding videographer forums - not exactly a scientific sampling, I know. Anyway, here's hoping things turn out better than they're rumored to be and that there one day be a peace between the photo and video folks!

Welcome to the forum.

With this crowd if you want a response to your posts it is best to talk in "absolute's"

or post things like this:

"With these kind of spec's no wonder Canon is losing market share."
"With these kind of spec's no wonder Canon is going out of business."
"If Chuck Norris were a sensor for a camera body, he would only need one pixel and be a Sony."

Hah! And many thank yous for the welcome

THIS. This is how you make a "first post" in here. And it's probably actually a real "first post" LOL. (How many accounts does dilbert have now? : j/k ). Take notes, some of you...

You're too kind!

...though I won't confirm or deny my true identity as Dilbert.

 

[Sharlin]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Ahh, excellent point. I forgot about that. And yes, I suppose it could be already in there, otherwise Canon would (I assume) had to have created a whole new DPAF sensor design for this camera since everything is built on chip now (wait, are the amplifiers on chip too? or just the ADC?). Perhaps the column parallel ADCs will play a role similarly. I dont think 7D2 had that. Predated the on chip ADC builds. 80D and 1DX2 does though.

The (analog) amplifiers pretty much have to be on chip if the ADCs are. Well, I guess unless you have so noiseless ADCs that you can move to completely digital "amplification".

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Whoa there, cowboys, time to rein in those horses.

Better check out this comment from someone who actually understands Japanese.

...I think it is written in typical Japanese hyperbolic promotional language. I would not read too much into it as other are doing.

これまでに無い=previously non-existent

後処理の調整=adjustments in post-processing

が可能な=which are made/rendered (ie adjustments in post-processing) possible

デュアルピクセルRAWファイル=dual pixel RAW file

...I would translate that as "dual pixel RAW files open up previously unobtainable degrees of latitude in post-production processing". Or more literally "dual pixel RAW files opens up possibilities in post-processing adjustments that previously never existed".

If you wanted to say "editable dual pixels" in Japanese it would be better to say 直接調整が可能なデュアルピクセルRAWファイル implying that direct editing at pixel level is possible. But I do not think that is at all what is being implied here. It is clearly more a case of the files offering greater latitude in post. It may be little more than a hyperbolic way of saying that you can recover shadows better.

Like Neuro, I don't know who "Thomas" is, but he clearly doesn't understand how DPAF works and should have never been quoted as an authority.

Reading the translated comments following this article, clearly the Japanese readers are interpreting it as something significant, and getting their hopes up.

Jack

 

[rushfan21122]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

UPDATE?

Updated detail specs of Canon EOS 5D Mark IV:

Sensor: Effective pixels 30.4 million pixels, dual pixel CMOS
Image processor: DIGIC 6+
AF point: 61 points
Shutter speed: 1 / 8,000 to 30 seconds, valves, maximum flash synchro speed 1/200 sec
ISO Sensitivity: 100-32000 (extended sensitivity 50-102400)
Continuous shooting: 7 frames / sec.
Finder field of view: up and down / left and right both about 100% (at the time of the eye point about 21mm)
Rear LCD: 3.2 inches, Touch panel
Video: 4K at 30fps, FullHD, HD at 120fps
150,000-pixel RGB + IR photometry sensor
Anti-flicker
Built-in GPS, Wi-Fi · NFC connection
Media: SD / SDHC / SDXC, CompactFlash Type II
Battery Life (CIPA): 900
USB 3.0, HDMI
Size: 150.7 x 116.4 x 75.9mm
Weight: 890g
Kit lens: EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM

 

[TAF]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

The ONLY thing that does my nut in a little with the 1DX2 is that shutter NOISE!

The 1DX2 "silent" shutter really isn't so bad. Any wildlife will know there's a human mooching around so a slightly less quiet shutter isn't too much of a problem. You could always video things and grab a frame if noise is the deal breaker. So far the full 14fps hasn't spooked any wildlife for me yet. Maybe my local wildlife is used to the sound of gunfire.

If you have USM lenses and allow them to auto focus, you've already given away the game before you ever release the shutter.

The loudest sound I could measure from my 5D3 was the USM focus motor. I seem to recall it was at 30 kHz, which is well within the audible range for many animals (house cats in my specific case). Worse yet, the mirror clean vibration, while much higher in frequency (around 100 kHz if I remember right), was equally loud and audible to my cats.

So simply turning on the camera and focusing has already alerted the target. If they stick around, the mirror slapping will merely confirm to them you're one of those humans...

+1 - the dog wouldn't stay anywhere in the room when the USM was doing its' thing. On MF, dog would sit peacefully... when on AF - a furry blur could be seen exiting the room.

One of my sister's cats is the same. The camera doesn't bother him at all, until I try to autofocus and then something about the sound makes him head for the hills. It's not loud, I wonder why they hate it so much?

OK, updated info. The USM from my 24-105L is around 30 kHz, and is so rich in harmonics you see signal at 60, 90, and 120 kHz. 30 and 60 are both right in the middle of a cat and dogs hearing (cats are really sensitive around 50 kHz so they can hear mice).

The 30 kHz signal is very loud, on the order of 80 dB (as best I can tell from my equipment).

The mirror cleaning vibration of the 5D3 is a series of sweeps from 100 kHz to >120 kHz (upper end of my equipment) and back down. Similar sound intensity.

The mirror cleaning vibration in my EOS M is a sweep from 110 down to 70 kHz, repeated twice. Similar intensity.

So no surprise the dog/cat responds to the noises.

STM lenses make to discernible ultrasonic noise.

Knowing that the big cats (lions etc) can hear just as well as our little ones in the upper ranges, I wonder if it has had any effect on safari photo events?

FYI, the world is very noisy in the ultrasonic range, both natural and man-made.

(bats are a hobby; owned by cats...)

 

[Donkey_Kong]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

So then, no Digic 7 for this camera?

 

[PureClassA]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

So then, no Digic 7 for this camera?

Craig hasn't posted that. Someone on this thread did and we don't know the source of any of that information. Digic 6+ or Digic 7 is irrelevant if whatever processor it has the best/right one for the camera. Putting in an overly fast chipset that is overkill for the feature set only serves to waste more battery power more quickly.

2012-2013
1DX = Dual Digic 5+
5D3 = Single Digic 5+

2016
1DX2 = Dual Digic 6+
5D4 = Single Digic 6+

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: *UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

So then, no Digic 7 for this camera?

new versions of DiGiC take around a year to filter into DSLR's when you first see them pop up into P&S.. probably not .. why? it's not as if it'll make much different image quality wise.