*Pssst!* Spill the beans, Distant.Star! What does one have to offer to get such invites? Old wedding rings, or fast Porsches?distant.star said:
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Craigslist for Selling - Not as Great as I thought!
- Thread starter RustyTheGeek
- Start date
Well, the hits just keep on coming!! I met someone yesterday to sell the 5D3 I bought to sell and... they stole it. Yep, STOLEN. I met him at a Taco Bell, we talked a few minutes, he inspected the camera stuff in the box, talked about computer stuff a little, calm as can be and then proceeded to say he would get his money, started to walk away with the box and before I could stop him he was out the door, across the street and beatin' feet. Bye 5D3!! :-[ 
So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.
So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen. So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now. What a pisser.
So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.
So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen. So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now. What a pisser.
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RustyTheGeek said:Well, the hits just keep on coming!! I met someone yesterday to sell the 5D3 I bought to sell and... they stole it. Yep, STOLEN. I met him at a Taco Bell, we talked a few minutes, he inspected the camera stuff in the box, talked about computer stuff a little, calm as can be and then proceeded to say he would get his money, started to walk away with the box and before I could stop him he was out the door, across the street and beatin' feet. Bye 5D3!! :-[
So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.
So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen. So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now. What a pisser.
Oh, dude! You've had a really, really bad streak lately.
In any future attempts at selling items you will have to say that you're working "with the police" (here it would be illegal to say that you are a police, if not), and make sure you could show off any of your goods in front of the nearest police department (or near a working surveillance camera).
I hope the bad karma turns real soon, and that you can expect something extraordinary for Xmas.
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DominoDude said:RustyTheGeek said:Well, the hits just keep on coming!! I met someone yesterday to sell the 5D3 I bought to sell and... they stole it. Yep, STOLEN. I met him at a Taco Bell, we talked a few minutes, he inspected the camera stuff in the box, talked about computer stuff a little, calm as can be and then proceeded to say he would get his money, started to walk away with the box and before I could stop him he was out the door, across the street and beatin' feet. Bye 5D3!! :-[
So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.
So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen. So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now. What a pisser.
Oh, dude! You've had a really, really bad streak lately.
In any future attempts at selling items you will have to say that you're working "with the police" (here it would be illegal to say that you are a police, if not), and make sure you could show off any of your goods in front of the nearest police department (or near a working surveillance camera).
I hope the bad karma turns real soon, and that you can expect something extraordinary for Xmas.
Yeah, I thought about just meeting in the police lobby or parking lot from now on, LOL!
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I have been thinking of selling camera equipment that I own on CL.
Can someone give pointers on cautions I should use while posting and meeting potential buyers?
Do you give your personal phone number to strangers while communicating? I can imagine someone misusing it or make threatening calls...How do you get in touch with the buyers to avoid this?
Can someone give pointers on cautions I should use while posting and meeting potential buyers?
Do you give your personal phone number to strangers while communicating? I can imagine someone misusing it or make threatening calls...How do you get in touch with the buyers to avoid this?
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Obviously you called the police and asked the taco bell manager there are surveillance videos.
RustyTheGeek said:Well, the hits just keep on coming!! I met someone yesterday to sell the 5D3 I bought to sell and... they stole it. Yep, STOLEN. I met him at a Taco Bell, we talked a few minutes, he inspected the camera stuff in the box, talked about computer stuff a little, calm as can be and then proceeded to say he would get his money, started to walk away with the box and before I could stop him he was out the door, across the street and beatin' feet. Bye 5D3!! :-[
So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.
So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen. So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now. What a pisser.
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Yes, filed police report and hopefully the detective for the case gets the store videos. I hate to say this but I've heard from more than one source that in general, the police pretty much blow this stuff off. There's just too much to do and not enough manpower or resources to do it. My only hope is that since this is a felony (over $1500) it might make it a higher priority to pursue.jdramirez said:Obviously you called the police and asked the taco bell manager there are surveillance videos.
RustyTheGeek said:Well, the hits just keep on coming!! I met someone yesterday to sell the 5D3 I bought to sell and... they stole it. Yep, STOLEN. I met him at a Taco Bell, we talked a few minutes, he inspected the camera stuff in the box, talked about computer stuff a little, calm as can be and then proceeded to say he would get his money, started to walk away with the box and before I could stop him he was out the door, across the street and beatin' feet. Bye 5D3!! :-[
So, I feel like a chump even though I wasn't about to chase him down and risk meeting all his friends down the street, in a car or around the corner.
So keep that in mind, even though no one was hurt (except my pride/ego), this crap can happen. So once I sell all the stuff I have to sell, I'll still probably come out ahead but most of my profit is gone now. What a pisser.
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aces-ags said:
Some of the big rules are...
1. NEVER invite people to your home or give them your address. (I mask my address on all receipts, etc that I include with an item.)
2. I do my communication via a tiered system of my design.
a. CL Mail Relay (anonymous)
b. Burner Phone or Virtual Phone App with "Burner" Phone number.
c. Once I've met them and a sale occurs, I will give them my real cell number/email/business card if I trust them.
3. ALWAYS meet in a public place, well lit and in a known area. (This Taco Bell wasn't terrible, it was public and well lit with surveillance video, but I didn't realize it was so easy to run away from it on foot.)
4. Try to arrive at a meeting early so you can watch vehicles and see people coming and who they are with.
a. This way you can get license numbers, take a picture or two and in general be on your guard.
5. Go with a friend if possible.
6. CASH ONLY to the buyer only, not a friend, cousin, etc. NO PAYPAL, WESTERN UNION, CHECKS, ETC.
Check out these links if you haven't already.
http://www.craigslist.org/about/safety
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams
And to be honest, I did not obey my rule #4 above. I was running late even though I had suspicions about the meeting. I let the chance of making a sale and the fact that all my previous sales had gone smoothly in public places convince me that it was going to be ok. I got a bit sloppy and it cost me. But I've learned my lesson and I will be more vigilant and demand more proof of serious buyer intent from now on.
And I will tell people up front that I've been ripped off before so I demand proof of a genuine buyer when I meet. Like an ID, etc. Maybe a call back to a legitimate place like their work. Not sure on my final plan for this yet.
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Btw: Rusty, did you manage to record your serial numbers on Lenstag before this occurred? (https://www.lenstag.com)
I have some of my gears serial numbers listed there; if I wasn't so damn lazy I would even had them verified so that they would be useful if the fit hit the shan...
I have some of my gears serial numbers listed there; if I wasn't so damn lazy I would even had them verified so that they would be useful if the fit hit the shan...
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DominoDude said:
Good question. Not on Lenstag but I do keep the serial numbers in case someone ever tries to pull a switch and return on me.
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RustyTheGeek said:
Can you contact CPS... see if someone who unknowingly buys it off ebay/amazon, or whatever... then they register it on cps... and bam, cps lets you know, you tell the police...
the buyer then has to mail it back to you... and they will then contact amazon/ebay or whatever and demand a refund... and the theft guy then gets his payment stopped... maybe even goes to jail.
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RustyTheGeek said:This experience is precisely why I would like to see a way to Buy & Sell here on CR. But I understand it's not easy for the mods, just more work. And CR will have to deal with all the scammers/spammers/trash that having a selling forum attracts.
It's like every picnic draws unwanted insects and potential bad weather when all you wanted to do was enjoy the day with some tasty snacks and a good drink. Sigh... :
Fred Miranda has a buy/sell. I haven't used it, I hang out here more, but it looks like it might work.
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jdramirez said:
Well, thanks JD for your concern and ideas. I appreciate your time to offer your thoughts. No offense but my guess is that your chain of events is probably an extremely optimistic version of the reality. Most of us in the honest world wish everyone wanted to catch criminals with mechanisms in place that seem like they should achieve that but it's rarely the case. Sort of a "Wish in one hand..." sort of thing. Of course, it can't hurt and I'll probably register it just in case.
My guess is that a) CPS doesn't care, b) Most folks would never register it on CPS, c) eBay doesn't care and finally and unfortunately, d) the police wouldn't care. (And which police, if they did care, would have jurisdiction?) Most all entities these days are not interested in getting involved and actually say that in their terms of use. No, I haven't read the CPS terms about this but I'm just assuming. If something like this could somehow happen, it would have to be driven by the authorities and that's likely where nothing would happen in the first place.
For instance, I know of a situation where a couple had their identity stolen, they spent weeks tracking down the thieves themselves, they got video and all kinds of other evidence and proof and turned it all over to the authorities who basically said that they weren't interested and didn't have time to mess with it. That's the general mentality of most police today. They are overworked, underpaid and in general, only pursue major crimes. Their petty crimes divisions are underfunded and overworked. The only hope I hold out for this case is that it is a felony due to the dollar amount so it might get a little more effort. But I doubt it.
I'm glad no one was threatened or hurt, I'm glad it was just the camera and not the lens too. I'm glad I hopefully learned something and I hope it helps everyone who hears about it avoid the same thing happening to them in the future, including me. I'm also glad that I have the means to shrug it off as a lesson learned and not ruin my Christmas or put me in the poor house due to the unexpected loss. I wish it had been the used 60D and not a new 5D3 but who knows what will happen in the future. Being a $3000 camera, it will probably be very hard to get rid of unless it's sold to a individual in a parking lot somewhere for $200 or something. And even that has an element of risk for the thief.
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I've bought stuff off of craigslist for years with no problems. I've sold some stuff but mostly been a buyer.
One way to weed out scammers, again as a buyer, is to ask for a 48 hour return option provided it is in identical condition. You aren't going to actually return it, you just want to see how they react. I bought my 400mm DO for $4200 off of craigslist a few years ago. I ran that idea up the flag pole and he wasn't thrilled but agreed.
I wish I had more advice on the selling side, I've sort of given up selling stuff, I live in a remote area with tractors and cameras, I don't want people coming to my house. These days I give stuff away to friends in need rather than sell it but I'll be joining your ranks to sell my 400mm DO to help fund the purchase of the mark II. So I'll be watching this thread for ideas.
Perhaps on the selling side you try this (from my motorcycle days). You want to hold the camera? Great, I want to hold the cash. No cash, no camera out of my hands. And you state that up front before the meeting. Think that would have worked?
One way to weed out scammers, again as a buyer, is to ask for a 48 hour return option provided it is in identical condition. You aren't going to actually return it, you just want to see how they react. I bought my 400mm DO for $4200 off of craigslist a few years ago. I ran that idea up the flag pole and he wasn't thrilled but agreed.
I wish I had more advice on the selling side, I've sort of given up selling stuff, I live in a remote area with tractors and cameras, I don't want people coming to my house. These days I give stuff away to friends in need rather than sell it but I'll be joining your ranks to sell my 400mm DO to help fund the purchase of the mark II. So I'll be watching this thread for ideas.
Perhaps on the selling side you try this (from my motorcycle days). You want to hold the camera? Great, I want to hold the cash. No cash, no camera out of my hands. And you state that up front before the meeting. Think that would have worked?
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luckydude said:
Well, as you can imagine, I've been mulling this over. I always try to put myself in the shoes of the buyer. They don't want to put themselves at risk either. So things like taking a photo of their ID/DL is probably not a reality. I'm not giving out my address and I figure they won't either. However, if I take their photo and a photo of their vehicle including the license plate, that may go a ways toward establishing ID without any other need. I wouldn't mind giving out my vehicle tag and make/model, it's public info already. If they walk in without a vehicle, no sale. Go away.
As for holding cash before holding camera, I like the idea but again, most buyers would be suspicious (and rightly so) that I would do the very same thing, run with the cash while they sit there with a camera box full of newspapers or a brick.
I fantasize how funny it would have been if the crook that ripped me off ran away, jumped fences, ripped his clothes and got a bloody knee only to arrive at his destination and discovered that all that was really in the box was some old junk cables, junk camera manual and a brick wrapped in bubble wrap. You know, a crook who ran off with another crooks' scam! LOL! Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.
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RustyTheGeek said:
What I was looking for was the same thing as the return policy. When I ask people about that I don't expect to use it, I'm gauging their lack of douche-baggery. If someone says "sure, yeah, you want to try and you'll bring it back exactly the same? OK." then I know they are real. Even if they put up a fight and then they agree, they are real.
So on the cash thing if people said "hell no, I want to see it before you see the cash", they are not real. If they are willing to do the cash up front, they are real.
That's how it worked when I bought/sold motorcycles. No cash, no ride. In fact the rule was you give me the cash and your drivers license, then you go take a ride. Not before.
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luckydude said:
I follow you. And I agree. I would discuss things first, feel out the buyer and in general, once I feel confident I am dealing with someone trustworthy, I normally agree to a return and I would explain what I look for if it were to happen. And if the camera is brand new, I might ask for a small return fee since it would be used after the fact. All that is legit and reasonable for both parties.
As for the cash holding thing, you gotta admit that riding a motorcycle off into the sunset pretty much requires a cash in hand thing up front. After all, the item is literally leaving your sight and might never return or be crashed. But two people sitting at a table indoors with a small box, the practice could be considered somewhat optional. But I'm not totally disagreeing with you, esp in light of what just happened to me.
Again, my hope is that I learn/practice a better method going forward and everyone else reading this can improve their strategy at the same time. Then my loss will not have been in vain.
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luckydude said:
You either inspire a lot of confidence, or you are lucky to have worked with very trusting sellers. There is no way I will agree to taking something back from a total stranger on CL for a refund once the item is out of sight. Who knows what could happen in the meantime? I'd say take half an hour, take an hour, test all you want- but once you pay and go away with that item, it doesn't come back to me.
It is entirely different on FredMiranda, where I will have no problem taking back something the buyer wants to return, provided the buyer has a few reviews and has been active on the site for some time. (it has happened only once when I sold my 5D II- I had forgotten to switch from BBF to shutter release and the buyer thought that the camera wouldn't focus and panicked. I told him I that I can walk him through the steps over the phone but if he doesn't want the hassle I can either take it back for a full refund or pay return shipping, fix it and ship it to him. He was patient enough to save me the expense)
I feel really bad for Rusty, and frankly I am not even that careful. I will often meet on the Patio of Starbucks, where it is quite easy to bolt. Lately I have started meeting in the lobby of my workplace, where there is security and closed circuit cameras, but that is mostly due to convenience (and it is reassuring enough for a buyer who is carrying a bit of cash). But only yesterday I sold my 7D II to a gentleman in the lobby of a bank after it had closed. He was carrying $ 1700, so he was also taking a chance I guess.
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I have had luck once I get to the point where a meeting happens. Buyers have been right next to me as they've looked over the goods. Once they've finished looking, I'll casually retake possession of the goods, and if they decide to make a purchase, they'll pass me money as I pass them the goods.
I won't let anyone walk away with anything unless I have money first.
Sometimes buyers will provide telephone numbers and names in their initial messages, and I'll look for them on Google.
Recently I sold a 9' x 20' foot black vinyl background (Savage). The tube was big, so there was no chance of the fellow running off with it, and he gave me the money first. In his first message, he sent his name and telephone number, and he picked up the tube at my place. He popped up on Google as someone who works in media and broadcasting. My T3i buyer was a working photographer, provided her work telephone number, a cellular telephone number, used her real name, and had a facebook page. It all came up on Google, so I had her come to my house, too.
When I don't find buyers on a Google search, I'll meet them at a place such as Taco Bell, McDonald's, or in front of a police station.
When selling an X-Rite ColorMunki item, I had buyers send messages asking if they could test the item by installing it on their machines to see if it worked, and if it did, they'd pay me. In my response, I said they could do all the testing they wanted if they paid me in cash first. Only with a non-functioning device would they get their money back. I didn't receive subsequent messages from them.
Sorry to hear of your bad experience. I hope that something from our responses will help you in any future craigslist selling you do.
I won't let anyone walk away with anything unless I have money first.
Sometimes buyers will provide telephone numbers and names in their initial messages, and I'll look for them on Google.
Recently I sold a 9' x 20' foot black vinyl background (Savage). The tube was big, so there was no chance of the fellow running off with it, and he gave me the money first. In his first message, he sent his name and telephone number, and he picked up the tube at my place. He popped up on Google as someone who works in media and broadcasting. My T3i buyer was a working photographer, provided her work telephone number, a cellular telephone number, used her real name, and had a facebook page. It all came up on Google, so I had her come to my house, too.
When I don't find buyers on a Google search, I'll meet them at a place such as Taco Bell, McDonald's, or in front of a police station.
When selling an X-Rite ColorMunki item, I had buyers send messages asking if they could test the item by installing it on their machines to see if it worked, and if it did, they'd pay me. In my response, I said they could do all the testing they wanted if they paid me in cash first. Only with a non-functioning device would they get their money back. I didn't receive subsequent messages from them.
Sorry to hear of your bad experience. I hope that something from our responses will help you in any future craigslist selling you do.
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