Craigslist for Selling - Not as Great as I thought!

[RGF]

This experience is precisely why I would like to see a way to Buy & Sell here on CR. But I understand it's not easy for the mods, just more work. And CR will have to deal with all the scammers/spammers/trash that having a selling forum attracts.

It's like every picnic draws unwanted insects and potential bad weather when all you wanted to do was enjoy the day with some tasty snacks and a good drink. Sigh... :

Fred Miranda has a buy/sell. I haven't used it, I hang out here more, but it looks like it might work.

I have sold and bought a bit on FM. Nice thing is no fees as % of item's price. Single annual fee which is very reasonable (I think $29?). Paypal if by credit card costs the seller 3% unless the seller tells the buyer to pay it. Otherwise paypal friend which is checking account to checking account without any protection.

eBay after all fees, including paypal, is 12-13%.

I have only sold small items on cragslist -- too much spam for my tastes. Occasionally sell to camera club members - that works well and lots of personal references.

 

[RGF]

When I don't find buyers on a Google search, I'll meet them at a place such as Taco Bell, McDonald's, or in front of a police station.

Always insist on meeting someone in a busy public place. My favorite is starbucks and I even buy a cup of joe so I am not occupying a seat without buying anything.

Of course, Micky-D works as does nearly any other public area - even library, bank, police station (!), ...My goal is for both parties to feel safe and that the deal is above board and honest.

 

[notapro]

I agree with you on the public place idea, RGF. In the examples I gave, the buyers were unusually "public" in that their places of work matched their telephone numbers, and they also came up on physical address searches.

A police station is nearby my place, so it's convenient. Mentioning it as a meeting place for sale has helped me weed out (I think) some potentially shady buyers.

 

[Old Sarge]

Rusty, not to get your hopes up unnecessarily, but in the DFW area (maybe state wide) all the pawn shops report their buys/pawns on a computer system checked by local police departments. I have seen many items recovered because of that system. In fact, two of my good friends had their pickup burglarized while in their garage and one of their Nikon cameras stolen (D3 I think). About two weeks later they got a call from the detective working the case that it had been located in a pawnshop in Dallas (we live in a far suburb). A property hearing was held and the camera was returned to them. Oddly enough, the telephoto zoom taken the same time (may have been on the camera) was not pawned so they did suffer that loss. That recovery gave police enough information, along with some evidence at the scene, to file a Burglary of a Habitation case on a suspect.

Do you mind if I ask which agency is investigating the case?

 

[AcutancePhotography]

It just seems to me that if anyone has any of these concerns, don't use Craig's list. It is not like that is the only way to sell stuff.

Is Craig's list really that advantagoius when selling expensive stuff like cameras?

 

[jdramirez]

I meant to bring this up last night... Do you have insurance? Homeowners might cover the theft. Also I have a policy on my gear, and it is General to the device... so I didn't list a serial number.

So if you have an mkiii covered, this might cover you as well.

 

[infared]

I sell storm doors and surf boards on CL...nothing more.....eBay has hefty fees...but I reach a better audience and don't have to deal with Joe-Public. I live in NJ...and everyone has a sob story...badda bing...badda boom! Know what I mean? A lot of time gets wasted. 8)

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Rusty, not to get your hopes up unnecessarily, but in the DFW area (maybe state wide) all the pawn shops report their buys/pawns on a computer system checked by local police departments. I have seen many items recovered because of that system. In fact, two of my good friends had their pickup burglarized while in their garage and one of their Nikon cameras stolen (D3 I think). About two weeks later they got a call from the detective working the case that it had been located in a pawnshop in Dallas (we live in a far suburb). A property hearing was held and the camera was returned to them. Oddly enough, the telephoto zoom taken the same time (may have been on the camera) was not pawned so they did suffer that loss. That recovery gave police enough information, along with some evidence at the scene, to file a Burglary of a Habitation case on a suspect.

Do you mind if I ask which agency is investigating the case?

Thanks OldSarge. I appreciate your input. No hopes here. I'll wait to be pleasantly surprised. Arlington PD I assume would be investigating. I might drop by the Taco Bell today and see if the manager was contacted yet. I know these things move slowly and I'm also aware of the database. I would be delighted if the thief was stupid enough to try and pawn it but I'll just have to wait and see. And if things did work out like that, I figure it would be months before anything is actually back in my possession. (Meaning, it will be worth a lot less and in 'who knows what' kind of condition, prob missing stuff, no box, etc.)

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Okay, so I did another CL transaction today selling my 60D. I sold it to a nice guy for his daughter for Christmas with the Tamron 18-270 lens. This the second time I've sold a camera for a teenage daughter's Christmas because they are learning photography and want to upgrade and get more serious.

Here's the way it played out...

1. He contacted me via the CL email relay, I replied and he gave his phone number, asked me to call him. I looked up the info in his email name and the phone number on Google. (I've always done this.) The search turned up info that looked legitimate, similar to what he provided and local, close to home even.

2. I replied back via the CL email relay, and then I sent a text to his number via a throw away number phone app I have on my phone.

* - I do most of my "detective" work at this stage before I give anything out of value with regard to identity. You can usually tell if someone is legit because they give their contact info, are willing to share things like a work number, address or some other kind of data. They are willing to discuss their photography or why they want to buy. If they ask to meet at odd times, odd places or that this deal is really really important to them because of whatever, their mother is dying, they can't be late to work, they need this badly for their whatever, etc then I am more suspicious. Most scam/con artists/thieves want to keep you on the hook with some kind of heart string sob story urgency crap. The guy that stole my camera said he needed it right away because he couldn't get a 5D3 online delivered before Christmas. That was a red flag and I was suspicious. He didn't try to negotiate the price. Another red flag.

3. Once I was reasonably certain this buyer was legitimate, in this case I was comfortable using my personal cell phone. In most cases, I won't do this so early but in this case, this time I felt confident he wasn't hiding anything and my regular cell phone works a lot better than the VOIP phone app. But if I have to, I'll just keep using the VOIP app until the sale is finished, never revealing any direct contact info.

4. We agreed to meet at the normal Starbucks I use. I arrived 15 minutes early and kept an eye out for folks driving in and coming in. I left the camera in the car.

5. Once he arrived, we met, introduced ourselves and I calmly asked to see that he brought money and asked to go outside with him and take a smartphone pic of his vehicle license plate that uploads online (in case my phone were stolen). In this case, the lic plate was personalized and matched his email and company name. Pretty legit. Otherwise, I would probably ask that they trigger their door locks or something with their key remote to confirm it is their vehicle. If someone isn't comfortable with either of these requests, I'll simply say goodbye and no one has risked anything. And if they want their own smartphone pic of my license plate, that's fine too.

6. In this case things were pretty much a lock. I could tell he was fine. But normally I would ask them to go back inside and I would go to my car alone and retrieve the camera and bring it in for them to inspect.

* At this point, I have something to identify the buyer that isn't too confidential and I have not allowed them to access the item I am selling until I am sure they are a legitimate buyer who isn't with a gang of thugs or on foot. I am also keeping them away from me when I will be alone with the item so I can't be robbed without witnesses.

7. Once inside with my item, I'll simply sit somewhere away from the exit and stay alert in case they have an accomplice waiting around to snag the item and run. I think most of the time, if someone is planning to steal something, they won't allow #5 above to happen anyway and won't have any money. Once they buy and hand over the money, life is good but I will be careful that I don't get robbed of the cash by someone else who saw the cash or is working with the buyer to retrieve the money later. Who knows, there could be a totally different thief who sees the deal go down and wants the money separate from this transaction.

The bottom line is that once you start assuming that you aren't vulnerable and that things will be okay, you are inviting something to happen like what happened to me. I got lazy, sloppy and I got robbed. If you just practice some basic prevention and be diligent, proactive and watch out for yourself, a lot of problems can be avoided. Thieves work hard to throw you off, make you feel secure and keep you confused or off balance.

No matter what, it's up to you to stay in control and not play the thieves' game.

Hope for the best, Plan for the worst.

 

[slclick]

There is also a 'Photographer Buddy wanted' ad that circulates on CL which is a HUGE red flag for theft.

Unless you're just lonely.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Rusty,

You went through all that "mission impossible" stuff just to sell something? Was it worth it?

Seems like a lot of work and worry. Looking out for accomplices? Really?

You expect them to give you their phone number but you use a throwaway number app??

Why would you ever use Craig's list if you have such worries?

It's your stuff and your decision and I respect that. But if I had any of these concerns, I would not use Craig's list.

Do you ever get a friend with a CCW to wait in the background in case the "deal" goes bad? ;D

 

[dgatwood]

Do you ever get a friend with a CCW to wait in the background in case the "deal" goes bad? ;D

I feel like there's a Firefly quote here somewhere.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Rusty,

You went through all that "mission impossible" stuff just to sell something? Was it worth it?

Seems like a lot of work and worry. Looking out for accomplices? Really?

You expect them to give you their phone number but you use a throwaway number app??

Why would you ever use Craig's list if you have such worries?

It's your stuff and your decision and I respect that. But if I had any of these concerns, I would not use Craig's list.

Do you ever get a friend with a CCW to wait in the background in case the "deal" goes bad? ;D

It's been busy and I didn't notice this reply but now that Christmas is here and I'm pretty caught up and chillin' I've had a chance to look at CR again.

I think AcutancePhotography's post deserves a quick reply...

Yes, it is a bit of work and worry. (But not too much.) I realize it seems like I'm going overboard with precautions or that I seem overly paranoid. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how you choose to sell something, there is possible risk of loss and trouble involved with every method. With ebay, you will pay more in fees and risk someone lying about you as a seller and in the worst case, costing you your item and also your payment due to an ebay buyer protection refund. It has happened.

With Craigslist, I have recently experienced a simple but costly theft in broad daylight. Fortunately there was no violence involved but it could have been prevented by taking precautions. If I am selling a $50 widget, you are correct, all the precautions I mention are probably pointless. But with a $3000+ camera or lens, recent events have proven that I need to be more careful. Not selling on CL may be one choice but I don't like to give up or quit, I like to adapt, solve the problem and carry on to achieve my goal. In this case, my goal is to sell my stuff and not get ripped off.

As for the throw away number... think about it. You are dealing with total strangers. After you deal with a few, you start to realize there are a lot of irritating people out there (at best) and some folks are downright creepy/dangerous (at worst). Until I feel comfortable giving out a real/permanent contact method, I want to have the ability to totally cut them off if I need to without it causing me a lot of trouble/grief in the process.

CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) - While I do have a license for this in Texas, I rarely carry. I go too many places where it's still prohibited. (Churches, public schools, boy scout property, etc.) And unless I am facing a lethal threat, I can't pull it out anyway. However, after I was robbed, I did give it more thought, that's a fact.

Again, I feel it is best to HOPE FOR THE BEST BUT PLAN FOR THE WORST.

And you're right, taking steps to mitigate problems ahead of time isn't for everyone. In that case, it probably is best to simply avoid selling with a anonymous system like CraigsList.