Canon’s 2023 Financials

[Del Paso]

Communists like Sebastião Salgado ...

Who is an extraordinary photographer!

 

[neuroanatomist]

I'm convinced that most people who buy an "entrance" camera neither know nor care about mirror or mirrorless technology.
It's just an affordable camera they often pick out of a sales-container in an electronics megastore.

Exactly. Not that hard to understand. The earlier question, "These people buying DSLRs, what online forum are they going to for advice?," is simply out of touch with reality.

 

[Del Paso]

Exactly. Not that hard to understand. The earlier question, "These people buying DSLRs, what online forum are they going to for advice?," is simply out of touch with reality.

All we have to do is take a look at the cameras and lenses we forum members are using...
That is why the systematic criticising of inexpensive RF kit zooms is absurd. Those using them are happy!

 

[David - Sydney]

All we have to do is take a look at the cameras and lenses we forum members are using...
That is why the systematic criticising of inexpensive RF kit zooms is absurd. Those using them are happy!

or keeping them on a shelf unused. Canon/Nikon are ok either way.
Friends bought a real camera for a holiday and found that their phones were better (auto-HDR etc) and easier to use/share. They won't buy another one. I suspect that there are many other data points like this one.

I bought a DLSR before we moved to China but moved to IXUS because it was easier/smaller and I didn't really learn how to use it outside of green mode.
Upgraded to further IXUS over the next 15 years until a trip to the Caribbean prompted a 7D+24-105/4 purchase and the rest is history.

A much harder question to answer is whether I would move to MILC from using a camera phone today. The availability of underwater housings for iPhones with dive computers in them and the reasonable quality of phone images with edit/shareable benefits is a harder decision... and I would be buying a new phone every couple of years anyway.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The availability of underwater housings for iPhones with dive computers in them and the reasonable quality of phone images with edit/shareable benefits is a harder decision... and I would be buying a new phone every couple of years anyway.

The SeaLife housing that I used with my iPhone 14 Pro worked very well. One drawback (perhaps there’s a way to overcome it, I didn’t look very hard) is the inability to sync a strobe. Constant lighting worked fine for me, though.

 

[David - Sydney]

I think what you're talking about here is the photos that you can get taken of you while cruising by someone from the ship with a camera?

This, like passport photos at your local post office or drugstore/walmart, aren't buying new cameras every month/year.

That's what I'm curious about, where are the new ones going? Maybe there is a certain element of "buy another X to replace X that failed" from commercial operators. They'd also want to not want to go to mirrorless because compatibility/skills.

Cruise photography is an example of where centralised procurement departments would be buying every year... there are a lot of ships out there with multiple cameras per cruise. They are taking hundreds of shots/day/ship with thousands of guests on each voyage. Workflow is king though for speed of viewing/printing.

The sheer volume of passport photography locations would mean an aggregate purchase every year.
That said, I think that passport photography is being overtaken by webcams and shots taken by phones/webcams at home now. My last renewal didn't require me to get a formal one taken - only to ensure that the head fit the envelope. My most recent country visa applications only used a webcam photo.

 

[David - Sydney]

We really don't have an overview of the developing country volumes where individual's phones don't have good image quality.
I suspect that local wedding photography is one area where locals will spend money on photos. They need a "real camera" to convince people to open their wallets.

The IMF estimates that 85% of the global population are in developing countries ie 6.8B people. Clearly there are growing middle classes in India/China with the India's definition of middle class income being USD6-22k/year and covering 31% of the population. Being considered "rich" means income >USD36k/year.
A lot of room for cheap ILC sales with DLSRs still being the cheapest.

 

[David - Sydney]

The SeaLife housing that I used with my iPhone 14 Pro worked very well. One drawback (perhaps there’s a way to overcome it, I didn’t look very hard) is the inability to sync a strobe. Constant lighting worked fine for me, though.

The latest is the Oceanic+ dive housing for USD490
https://www.oceanicworldwide.com/product/computers/oceanic-plus-dive-housing/
Optionally, subscribe to the Oceanic app containing their secret sauce IP (accumulated knowledge of diving profiles/decompression times etc). for a dive computer and even dual sync with the Apple Ultra Watch for redundancy as the app covers both devices.
Note that the Apple watch/housing can't sync with a wireless air tank pressure which is a distinct negative as well as ongoing subscription costs or just buy a dedicated dive computer.

Many camera/housings can't electrically sync (let alone TTL) with external strobes. The solution is an optical trigger to the flash on the camera via an optic fiber cable. There is also an option for optical slave remote trigger from another flash when wider area lighting is required.
https://www.ikelite.com/collections/strobe-triggering/fiber-optic

Continuous lighting has recently improved dramatically in brightness, power efficiency and evenness of beams. Strobes will ultimately be more powerful but high ISO performance has reduced their need and having better video is becoming more important these days.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The solution is an optical trigger to the flash on the camera via an optic fiber cable.

How would that work with an iPhone, though? I use the built-in optical trigger on my monolight in conjunction with the Canon RT system, but it only works in manual mode because the preflash for E-TTL would trigger it. How do you shut off the iPhone’s preflash? Might be possible with a dedicated camera app for the housing.

Can the iPhone LED ‘flash’ even trigger an optical slave? The guide number (GN) of a typical onboard flash that would trigger an optical slave is 8-9, a smartphone flash GN is a rather dim 1-1.5 (for comparison, my EL-5 GN is 25-60 depending on the head zoom setting).

Continuous lighting has recently improved dramatically in brightness, power efficiency and evenness of beams. Strobes will ultimately be more powerful but high ISO performance has reduced their need and having better video is becoming more important these days.

I used a pair of 3000 lumen floods (90° underwater coverage), with a CRI of 90 so the light quality is reasonably good.

 

[David - Sydney]

How would that work with an iPhone, though? I use the built-in optical trigger on my monolight in conjunction with the Canon RT system, but it only works in manual mode because the preflash for E-TTL would trigger it. How do you shut off the iPhone’s preflash? Might be possible with a dedicated camera app for the housing.

Can the iPhone LED ‘flash’ even trigger an optical slave? The guide number (GN) of a typical onboard flash that would trigger an optical slave is 8-9, a smartphone flash GN is a rather dim 1-1.5 (for comparison, my EL-5 GN is 25-60 depending on the head zoom setting).

I used optical with compact cameras a long time ago and they typically had a plastic diffuser in the front of the flash which was only useful for very close macro. I believe that the old cameras had pre-flash but it isn't clear if the iPhone uses pre-flash or not. It doesn't seem to be controllable but may be used for red-eye reduction.
The optic fibre was attached to the front of it in some way eg 3M velcro with fiber inserted.

More recent compact housings eg Ikelite housing for the TG-7 have 2 "ports" at the top for dual (or just single) fibre optic cables for the optical trigger. These are just windows with light pipes internally I think. Ikelite say that their strobes can be triggered TTL using it.
When I mention remote triggering, they are normally based on separate powerful strobes with highly sensitive triggers ie
https://www.ikelite.com/products/hi...converter-for-remote-triggering-of-ds-strobes
My current strobes are 213Ws which are probably the highest for underwater strobes... unfortunately, they don't specify the guide number. The water visibility would impact the GN significantly so that would be one reason. The Profoto B10X is 250Ws and the A2 is 100Ws for comparison.

 

[EricN]

We really don't have an overview of the developing country volumes where individual's phones don't have good image quality.
I suspect that local wedding photography is one area where locals will spend money on photos. They need a "real camera" to convince people to open their wallets.

The IMF estimates that 85% of the global population are in developing countries ie 6.8B people. Clearly there are growing middle classes in India/China with the India's definition of middle class income being USD6-22k/year and covering 31% of the population. Being considered "rich" means income >USD36k/year.
A lot of room for cheap ILC sales with DLSRs still being the cheapest.

Even though the cost of living is lower in these countries, from the people I know, you'd have to be dedicated to photography to consider spending spending even 10% of savings.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The IMF estimates that 85% of the global population are in developing countries ie 6.8B people. Clearly there are growing middle classes in India/China with the India's definition of middle class income being USD6-22k/year and covering 31% of the population. Being considered "rich" means income >USD36k/year.
A lot of room for cheap ILC sales with DLSRs still being the cheapest.

Except that relatively few of the DSLRs shipped went to China/India. According to CIPA, 77% of the DLSRs shipped in 2023 went to Europe and the Americas. 10% went to China and 8% went to the 'rest of Asia' (outside of Japan/China, meaning mostly India in terms of population). Less than 2% went to 'other areas' (which presumably means Australia and Africa, since all the other continents are accounted for...Antarctica notwithstanding but I doubt many DSLRs were shipped there).

 

[justaCanonuser]

Who is an extraordinary photographer!

Indeed, one of the greatest photographers since the 1970s - and an impressive personality. Did you know that he changed from documentary (as an art) to nature and wildlife photography in the past years? After his horror trip in the Rwanda civil war, where he shot heartbreaking photos, he was mentally so wounded that he couldn't proceed with his work documenting of what humans are capable of doing to each other. So, after a long break, he returned to photography, but to a more meditative way of catching images. I am a huge fan of his work (and actually I really don't mind what brand he uses, it's just gear, and Canon gear seems to serve his way of shooting best).

 

[Del Paso]

Indeed, one of the greatest photographers since the 1970s - and an impressive personality. Did you know that he changed from documentary (as an art) to nature and wildlife photography in the past years? After his horror trip in the Rwanda civil war, where he shot heartbreaking photos, he was mentally so wounded that he couldn't proceed with his work documenting of what humans are capable of doing to each other. So, after a long break, he returned to photography, but to a more meditative way of catching images. I am a huge fan of his work (and actually I really don't mind what brand he uses, it's just gear, and Canon gear seems to serve his way of shooting best).

I fully agree with you.
He is indeed a master of many trades, and is a great and compassionate person.
Salgado is a living proof that photography can be so much more than a mere hobby!

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I'd even go a bit further.
I'm convinced that most people who buy an "entrance" camera neither know nor care about mirror or mirrorless technology.
It's just an affordable camera they often pick out of a sales-container in an electronics megastore.
If pictures are well exposed and the camera keeps working, satisfaction sets in and confirmes their choice. And this is ok, even if they usually don't upgrade or buy additional lenses.
OK for Canikon too, many little profits add up to larger sums (which finance development of our favourite toys...)

I do not see Nikon cameras in mainstream electronic stores anymore.
There is only Canon.

 

[Del Paso]

I do not see Nikon cameras in mainstream electronic stores anymore.
There is only Canon.

You're absolutely right! (I haven't frequented these stores for a long time...)
Their websites no longer mention Nikon DSLRs.

 

[danfaz]

 

[David - Sydney]

Except that relatively few of the DSLRs shipped went to China/India. According to CIPA, 77% of the DLSRs shipped in 2023 went to Europe and the Americas. 10% went to China and 8% went to the 'rest of Asia' (outside of Japan/China, meaning mostly India in terms of population). Less than 2% went to 'other areas' (which presumably means Australia and Africa, since all the other continents are accounted for...Antarctica notwithstanding but I doubt many DSLRs were shipped there).

Sounds like an opportunity then

 

[David - Sydney]

Even though the cost of living is lower in these countries, from the people I know, you'd have to be dedicated to photography to consider spending spending even 10% of savings.

I would agree although there are a lot of marriages and that is one area that they may open their wallets.

 

[EricN]

I would agree although there are a lot of marriages and that is one area that they may open their wallets.

It's a good point. Could be graduation gift, too? I'll have to ask some international friends if they know how likely a camera would be a gift for such occasions.